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Nhl 2010-2011

Discussion in 'All Other Sports' started by Green_Bay_Packers, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. JJP41
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    JJP41 Cheesehead

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    Well, first of all, Seabrook was looking back over his shoulder, not down at his feet. Secondly, this wasn't an open ice play where both players were going north-south at full speed. For all practical purposes, Seabrook was almost a a stationary target. Again read the rule as it is now. The hitter has the resposiblity to take the body first and not the head. You may not like the way the rule reads but it is the rule now. Torres skated all the way in from the circle behind the net so he had more than enough time to just lower his shoulder and take the body, but he didn't He came in high and got his head. So spare the crap about Seabrook being at fault. If you've played the game like you say you have, you know full well what can happen when you come in high on someone so I don't have to prove intent.

    So therefore if Bergeron had bitten Lapierre when he put his glove by his mouth and taunted him last game then it would have been Lapierre's fault?
  2. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    Seabrook lowered his head, Torres didn't have time to react. He was caught with his elbow up, so there was a penalty called. You cannot prove intent considering how fast the hit happened, period. Seabrook and every hockey player at all levels know when you lower your head you open yourself up to a shoulder/elbow or a blindside, I am not blaming Seabrook for the elbow I am blaming him for not protecting himself like he was taught. The NHL expects players to protect themselves, that would have been considered by the NHL when they reviewed the play.

    For the last time and just to clarify, Torres got up on Seabrook, yes, that is why a penalty was called. It was not worth a suspension because of how Seabrook lowered his head not giving Torres the time to react, and at that speed you cannot say what Torres intention was other then laying the body of Seabrook and removing him from the puck as soon as possible.

    Yes, he would have been partly at fault. If you stick your fingers in the mouth of another person they can react in a few different ways, biting is one of those ways.
  3. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    Lappy mocking Bergeron was hilarious by the way.
  4. Pegger Packer
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    Canucks are playing pretty dirty and winning.

    I'm not against that style of play, but I am against the notion that all Canadians support the Vancouver Canucks. I hate the Bruins, but I'm also NO FAN of the Canucks.... In fact, if it weren't for the exciting hockey being played, I don't think I would care for this series at all!

    But I think I would want the Canucks to win a LITTLE bit more than I want Boston to win. Boston SUCKS!
  5. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    I knew they were not going to win tonight but that was ridiculous. They shut it down when they get a few goals down and often get blown out because of it (which is no sign of a champion). They shouldn't have left Lu out there, I have no idea was AV was thinking. Game 4 is obviously massive. People will be freaking out tonight, the band-wagoners will be asking for Lu's head...

    Boston is a good team, but if they count of two shorties a night and the old man to score just as often they are going to have a problem winning a long series.
  6. JJP41
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    JJP41 Cheesehead

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    Wrong again. Watch the replay, Seabrook is looking back over his shoulder because that is where the puck is coming from. But wasn't even the issue. As far as him "playing" the puck. He never had the chance to. Torres hit before it arrived. And spare the stuff that Torres had no time to lower his shoulder and take the body instead of the head. He skated in all the way from the top of the circle. And he isn't an Olympic speed skater by any means.

    The reason the NHL did not suspend Torres was not because of where Seabrook's head was at. They bailed out by saying the rule wasn't meant for shoulder to head hits. which is a contradiction considering some of the other suspensions that have been handed down. Maybe take some time and check the official ruling that was issued by the league.
  7. JJP41
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    Well Moose, I must admit I never saw that coming.

    I doubt Boston is counting on anything. They just came out totally pissed off after the first intermission.
  8. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    The head was lowered, I don't care in what direction. It was the worst thing he could have done and he paid the price. Torres wasn't suspended because of all the factors I have already pointed out, a few different times actually. The rule book is black and white while the game is full of shades of gray, something I don't think many understand.

    The timing of the play is not in question in my mind, the puck was at his feet and he was in the act of playing the puck. Torres did what he was taught and used his speed to time the hit perfectly. Maybe I watched a different play because I honestly don't know how you could watch that play and say it was early. I totally understand someone thinking the elbow was too high and he was head hunting, but the timing was perfect.

    Again though, you are going on and on about a hit made a month or more ago. The game is too fast and there will always be debate over hits no matter what the NHL does.
  9. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzYt7xIfVY&feature=related]YouTube - ‪Sportsnet crew discussing Torres hit‬‏[/ame]

    Two much smarter hockey minds than us, who believe it wasn't even a penalty.

    Just showing you how these plays can be torn apart and 100 different people can believe 100 different things. I think his elbow was high, I have played since I was 5 or 6 and I was always taught to tuck in that situation to avoid getting caught high but these two think otherwise.
  10. JJP41
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    His head position in not the issue. Seabrook was looking to h the left. Watch the video. And if he was playing the puck like you think he was, the refs wouldn't have called Torres for interference. They would have called him for roughting........maybe. Why is it you feel the need to somehow blame the opposing player every time one of your Canucks pull some BS?

    As far as all the uproar over him not being suspended. That point was made many posts ago. The NHL said no more head shots. Went out of their way to release statements and putting more responsiblity on the hitters. But then they contradicted their own words in this case.

    And like I said, you say all you want about the reasons why Torres wasn't suspended. Doesn't matter what you think as to why so why bother listing them? The only real truth is the official statement from the league......even if it doesn't back up your opinion.
  11. JJP41
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    Nowhere near as funny as Recchi giving it right back to him.

    Then again Lucic clowing Burrows was pretty funny too.
  12. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    Ok buddy you can view the hit anyway you want it, the NHL didn't suspend him and many, many fans agreed with the decision.
    Again, the rule book is black and white while the NHL and fans have a great game that is full of grey, you don't seem to understand that.

    He was not suspended because Seabrook did nothing to protect himself so it made the hit look much worse, Torres didn't leave his feet, and it isn't like his elbow was at a 90 degree angle. You can go on about whatever you like, but these are the facts and that is hockey.

    It was nice to see Lucic and the old man embarrassing his coach after he went on about how his team wouldn't stand for it. That was hilarious too.
  13. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    "When Rule 48 [Illegal Check to the Head] was unanimously adopted by the general managers in March 2010, there was no intention to make this type of shoulder hit to the head illegal,” Campbell stated. “In fact, at that time, we distributed a video to all players and teams that showed a similar hit on a defenseman by an attacking forward coming from the opposite direction behind the net and stated that this is a 'legal play'.

    "This hit meets none of the criteria that would subject Torres to supplemental discipline, including an application of Rule 48: he did not charge his opponent or leave his feet to deliver this check. He did not deliver an elbow or extended forearm and this hit was not 'late'."

    That is the stance of the NHL, maybe you can apply to the opening now that Campbell has left.
  14. JJP41
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    JJP41 Cheesehead

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    And my bet those many, many fans are Vancouver fans. Funny but everthing I read on the major sites had more than half saying Torres should have been suspended. But that doesn't matter.

    Embarrassing? Getting clowned 8-1 is embarrassing.
  15. JJP41
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    JJP41 Cheesehead

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    And the stance of the NHL and the explanation is what people had a problem with. Campbell says the "intention" of the rule was not for shoulder to head hits. But yet on the video they released, there were a few shoulder to head hits they deemed illegal.

    The other problem is Campbell using one of clips of a legal hit as an example. The defenseman has the puck and is skating around the net and gets drilled. He's not basically stationary waiting for the puck to arrive.

    You spin it any way you want, blame Seabrook all you want. The problem a lot of people have is the league contrdicting itself.
  16. PackersRS
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    As a non-fan of any NHL team, that hit was criminal. It would be criminal in the NFL, it was criminal in the NHL. Suspending or not suspending the player has a lot more to do with it being in the finals than anything else.

    Again, as a non-fan of any NHL team, the impression I got of these finals is that the Vancouver team is dirty. I don't mind the fights and the violence in hockey, but biting and blindsiding? That's even illegal in MMA.
  17. JJP41
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    JJP41 Cheesehead

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    So Moose, all the other stuff aside, your opinion on the Rome 4 game suspension?
  18. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    The Canucks are two wins away from the cup, I doubt they are that embarrassed by one game.

    More than half on major sports sites? This is all you have left? Are you serious?

    Find me where he said the intention was not to get rid of some more serious shoulder checks to the head. Actually, he only said the intention was never to get rid of this type of shoulder check. There is simply no contradiction on this hit, you can believe whatever you want but I am confident the NHL made the correct call in this specific situation.
  19. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    I am not sure I agree with the amount of games (although AV should have sat him for the rest of the series anyway, the guy cannot handle the Bruins and has proven that the last two games), but it was far too late a hit and you have to consider he is a fringe player knocking out their 2nd leading scorer. I feel for Horton, it is ashame he doesn't get to finish what he started.
  20. JJP41
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    Yes Moose. I do like to read opinions from the hockey experts,,,,,,moreso than fans. Where are all these many people who think Torres did nothing wrong? In Vancouver?

    Sorry, you believe whatever you want. The league releses a video with examples of should to head hits that they deem illegal but then say their "intention" was not to make "certain types" illegal. Show me where those specific types are listed.

    That's about as contradictory as you can get.
  21. JJP41
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    Well, surprise, surprise, we disagree again.

    For a long time I've felt if someone delivers a cheap shot that injures another player, he sits until the player he injured can play again.......without pay.

    Sitting around not getting paid is one sure way of making players rethink going headhunting and such.
  22. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    When did I say it was bad to listen to hockey experts? In fact I have posted a link to two ex pros who thought the hit was clean. Oh and the broadcast is from Toronto.

    In those same videos they released hits they deemed legal, they determined the Torres hit resembled one of those hits. How on Earth is that contradictory?
  23. JJP41
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    And as I pointed out, the video Campbell referred to was not similar to the Torres hit. The defenseman had possession of the puck and was skating out from behind the net and was met by the player as he came out. Seabrook was pretty much stationary behind the net, looking to his right, waiting for the puck and was hit by Torres from the left. Big difference between the two hits.
  24. VersusTheMoose
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    VersusTheMoose Greatest of All-Time

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    I never said it was a clean hit, I said I agreed with he NHL that is wasn't worthy of a suspension. He was comparing it to a clean hit, so of course there will be differences.
  25. Kitten
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    That hit looked clean to me, but I think it's coming as close as you possibly can to crossing a line. I will say this about hits and hockey in general. I don't have to tell any hockey fan that hockey is a brutal, often bloody sport. You are responsible as a player to remain within the bounds of the rules and to maintain control over yourself. I've seen my share of vicious hits where the intent was quite obviously malicious and with the intent to injure. I've also seen hits that were legit get blown out of proportion. Hockey is a passionate game, it's intense. Things happens in the course of a game that perhaps you don't intend. I'm not referring to the Torres hit, just the nature of the game altogether. With regards to suspensions, there is a certain known leeway that is given in the playoffs, particularly in the finals. I'm not saying it's anything goes, I'm just saying I think the refs let 'em loose a bit knowing it's the finals, emotions are high and the season is on the line. I'm not excusing the hit, in fact I found it to be a bit excessive, but to be completely honest, I would come to expect it in the finals. I would check my own Dad into the boards if he stood between me and the cup.

    I'm sure if the Canucks win the Cup, this hit is going to be made much more of a focal point than is warranted. The Bruins and fans are gonna cry foul (they already are) and use this as an excuse for losing the series. I can already see the controversy brewing...

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