Neal suspended 4 games has ocd

[AmishMafia]

We're NOT talking about other players. We're talking about Mike Neal. The thread is about Mike Neal. The assumption last year was that Mike Neal would emerge to replace Jenkins... He didn't. Now he's suspended for a quarter of the season. Since the thread is about Mike Neal, you are absolutely correct, I am focusing on one rotten tree.

The other thread, that you sarcastically brought up was about 'if we need to sign all of our FAs'. If you would stop to think for a minute you would realize that we have been losing FAs all along and other players have emerged.

You know what? Forget it. Just never mind.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

The other thread, that you sarcastically brought up was about 'if we need to sign all of our FAs'. If you would stop to think for a minute you would realize that we have been losing FAs all along and other players have emerged.

You know what? Forget it. Just never mind.

I completely agree with you... Never mind.

And, BTW, what key free agents have we lost in the past three years? Aaron Kampman after an ACL tear? The always underachieving Daryn Colledge? The "just not good enough" Jason Spitz? King of illegal contact Al Harris? Outside of Cullen Jenkins, the Packers have not lost a key free agent in quite some time.

 

[Dan115]

I completely agree with you... Never mind.

And, BTW, what key free agents have we lost in the past three years? Aaron Kampman after an ACL tear? The always underachieving Daryn Colledge? The "just not good enough" Jason Spitz? King of illegal contact Al Harris? Outside of Cullen Jenkins, the Packers have not lost a key free agent in quite some time.

LOL We need a Packer Game. This off season stuff gets old.

 

[7thFloorRA]

Hopefully this forces them to actually get someone to play DE instead of the crap they have been putting out and the eternal hope that Neal will be the guy.

 

[Ted's Tightwad]

I completely agree with you... Never mind.

And, BTW, what key free agents have we lost in the past three years? Aaron Kampman after an ACL tear? The always underachieving Daryn Colledge? The "just not good enough" Jason Spitz? King of illegal contact Al Harris? Outside of Cullen Jenkins, the Packers have not lost a key free agent in quite some time.

I don't think he's getting your point that Ted Thompson has a LOUSY track record for drafting Defensive Lineman. I've never seen fans worship a GM like some of these people do Thompson. He is a very good GM but I wouldn't consider him great because he really isn't great at evaluating Defense talent especially the front 7.

For as good as he has been getting WR's he's been every bit as bad when it comes to the DLine. This is why some Packer fans want us to go the FA route and sign a legit RE for the 3-4.

Unless we get a Legit RE and a fire breathing ROLB to compliment Clay we will not win the NFC next year. You saw how good 15-1 did in the playoff's when you cannot consistently generate pressue.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I don't think he's getting your point that Ted Thompson has a LOUSY track record for drafting Defensive Lineman. I've never seen fans worship a GM like some of these people do Thompson. He is a very good GM but I wouldn't consider him great because he really isn't great at evaluating Defense talent especially the front 7.

For as good as he has been getting WR's he's been every bit as bad when it comes to the DLine. This is why some Packer fans want us to go the FA route and sign a legit RE for the 3-4.

Unless we get a Legit RE and a fire breathing ROLB to compliment Clay we will not win the NFC next year. You saw how good 15-1 did in the playoff's when you cannot consistently generate pressue.

Hey, people don't like the truth here. Just smile and nod politely

 

[Bagadeez04]

This legitimately makes one wonder when Neal started taking this stuff in the first place...in my mind this solidifies his status as a bust.

Doesn't change much though IMO...as he was likely a lost cause anyways. DE and OLB continue to be positions that need major upgrades (or at least attempts at such).

 

[mradtke66]

but I wouldn't consider him great because he really isn't great at evaluating Defense talent especially the front 7.

I suppose Raji, Matthews, and Bishop don't count in the front seven? Hell, even Hawk isn't terrible--not very good, but certainly serviceable. Even Jolly did just fine for us, before his drug problem surfaced.

Remember, hitting on 1/3 of your picks is considered to be a mark of a good drafting GM. He does that on the whole, though he's had some bad luck with defensive linemen.

He's drafted 2 defensive linemen in the 1st round, Raji and Harrell. 1/2. Not bad.

He's drafted 1 in second, Neal. I give him another year, but as of now 0/1

or 1/3 in the first two rounds. The big, important, "find your playmakers" rounds.

In the fourth, Jeremy Thompson. Not that great, had to retire due to injury. 0/1

He's drafted several in the 6th, Michael Montgomery (adequate sub in the 4-3, didn't fit the 3-4), Johnny Jolly (pretty good player, stupid drugs), Wynn (serviceable.) I'm tempted to give passing grades on all three, if only because they are such late picks. Perhaps 2/3 is fair?

In the seventh, Wilson (serviceable) and Lawrence Guy (incomplete). 1/2

I count 3/8, slightly better than 33%. If Neal pans out, that's 4/8. If you exclude Guy (went on IR in training camp) that 3/7 or 4/7.

 

[Ted's Tightwad]

I suppose Raji, Matthews, and Bishop don't count in the front seven? Hell, even Hawk isn't terrible--not very good, but certainly serviceable. Even Jolly did just fine for us, before his drug problem surfaced.

Remember, hitting on 1/3 of your picks is considered to be a mark of a good drafting GM. He does that on the whole, though he's had some bad luck with defensive linemen.

He's drafted 2 defensive linemen in the 1st round, Raji and Harrell. 1/2. Not bad.

He's drafted 1 in second, Neal. I give him another year, but as of now 0/1

or 1/3 in the first two rounds. The big, important, "find your playmakers" rounds.

In the fourth, Jeremy Thompson. Not that great, had to retire due to injury. 0/1

He's drafted several in the 6th, Michael Montgomery (adequate sub in the 4-3, didn't fit the 3-4), Johnny Jolly (pretty good player, stupid drugs), Wynn (serviceable.) I'm tempted to give passing grades on all three, if only because they are such late picks. Perhaps 2/3 is fair?

In the seventh, Wilson (serviceable) and Lawrence Guy (incomplete). 1/2

I count 3/8, slightly better than 33%. If Neal pans out, that's 4/8. If you exclude Guy (went on IR in training camp) that 3/7 or 4/7.

Raji and Matthews were 1st round picks and pretty much sure fire lead pipe locks to be players. But, if you didn't notice neither came close to their 2010 level without Cullen collapse the Right side of the defense.

Bishop is not a pro bowl level or all NFC level player. AJ Hawk is flat out terrible and extremely overpaid and pretty much 100% the reason we couldn't afford to keep Jenkins and/or go after a good dlineman.

So from you list we have:

Raji (Mid 1st Round)
Clay (Mid 1st Round)
Bishop (4th or 5th round??? Cant remember)

and a bunch of guys doing nothing, you proved our point. I don't think Wynn, Wilson, Neal are even remotely servicable our defense was ranked 31st last year. I don't call that serviceable in way shape or form.

 

[ivo610]

They funniest part is I have never posted on this board before and that is the god's honest truth. Been a packer fan for the better part of 15 years's but I do not live near Wisky just have some family up there. I'm really not sure who some of you think I am, but I assure you I'm not another poster hiding behind a screen name.

Just someone who is sick of Ted and his nonsense, this team is on the cusp of greatness and yet again he holds onto a draft pick likes it the Rosetta Stone. While Ziggy goes and brings in Moss for a 3rd, if you dont see the irony in that you will when we lose AGAIN to the Queens twice.

I hate Brett with a passion but I truly dislike Ted just as much. If anyone thinks this team can win the NFC with BJax and Kuhn running the rock you on drugs. When the weather turns we have to be able to run the rock especially with the bad line play thus far this year.

Crow.... Omnomnom omnomnom

 

[2411t]

Maybe he has ****** too

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Well, its a deep draft for D linemen. But hey maybe he unknowingly took something during his rehab. I'd wait for the appeal before I bury him.. Or we could start the I HATE NEAL fan club and maybe spinoff a I HATE TED fan club. I mean, he has buried this team by releasing one player.

 

[SpartaChris]

One thing working in Neal's favor to stay with the team this year is his salary- Less than $500k. At that salary, if he even makes a marginal improvement over last year it will be worth it.

 

[SpartaChris]

Well, its a deep draft for D linemen. But hey maybe he unknowingly took something during his rehab. I'd wait for the appeal before I bury him..

Actually, for the suspension to have been announced by the league, the appeal would have already had to have been heard and denied.

Or we could start the I HATE NEAL fan club and maybe spinoff a I HATE TED fan club. I mean, he has buried this team by releasing one player.

No sh*t, huh. Sure seems that way, reading some of the posts here.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Let's look at all the players drafted by TT on the DL, and CBs.

 

[TJV]

Great. What’s Neal planning for an encore, committing a crime? The only thing “better” than Neal’s suspension is the over-reaction to it here.

To expand on what SpartaChris posted, IMO at this point it would be foolish for Thompson to cut Neal. The Packers have already paid him the majority of his contract, the financial damage is already done. According to one source, Neal will cost $780K against the cap this season, in fact since he doesn’t get paid for those 4 games, his cap number should be less. Even if it isn’t, he’ll take up 0.65% of the “stated” $120.6M cap and the Packers cap is higher than that. And his deal is up after the 2013 season.

I'm starting to wonder if Ted drafts these glass men on purpose

Could you expand on this thought? I’d be interested in your guess as to his motivation and your theory on why Ted’s Tightwad didn’t beat you to making this comment. (Just kidding on the last question.)

I don't get it. Mike Neal shows the error of you "other players will emerge" assumption and you still come back with sarcasm.

One player doesn’t work out and that proves what? And JenningsLongCatch who here was “counting on Neal” going into the 2012 season? I haven’t read all of the posts of course but I don’t remember a single one.

I remind all those harping on Neal being injury prone that Charles Woodson was also “injury prone” before Thompson signed him.

 

[ivo610]

Only 10 posts and the hits keep coming. Time to serve up that crow.

I said we would never win anything under the Shermanator and we didnt. I also dont see us winning anything with Tightwad Ted running this ship and we havent.......also due to some classic Favre INT's.

I feel bad for ARod, dude is the most talent QB in the NFL but behind this line, without a running game it will take a miracle to pull the NFC this year.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

One player doesn’t work out and that proves what? And JenningsLongCatch who here was “counting on Neal” going into the 2012 season? I haven’t read all of the posts of course but I don’t remember a single one.

I remind all those harping on Neal being injury prone that Charles Woodson was also “injury prone” before Thompson signed him.

Who counted on Neal? How about the Packers organization to replace Cullen Jenkins. Miss the part where Jenkins was let go replace Neal

And please... Never, ever, ever compare Mike Neal to Chareles Woodson.

 

[TJV]

Who counted on Neal? How about the Packers organization to replace Cullen Jenkins. Miss the part where Jenkins was let go replace Neal

I was talking about going into THIS season. You posted:

I'm just not counting on a guy with 9 tackles in two years who is suspended for the first quarter of next season to be a factor. He could be a surprise, but I'll keep expectations low.

You're not counting on him for 2012? Ya, no kidding. My point is even before this suspension, who was?

And please... Never, ever, ever compare Mike Neal to Chareles Woodson.

It depends in what way the players are being compared. When you and/or others criticize Thompson for acquiring players who have the label "injury prone", you have to include all such players in that evaluation if you want that evaluation to be meaningful. Charles Woodson was in that category when Thompson signed him. So Woodson compares with Neal and Justin Harrell with regard to being labeled "injury prone" when they were acquired by the Packers.

Hindsight is 20/20 so if Thompson could do it all over again, Neal wouldn't be a Packer. While Neal was injured at Purdue, he also played through injuries and ended his college career by starting every game as a senior and he played in both the Senior bowl and East-West Shrine game before being drafted.

Just like every other GM in the history of the NFL, Thompson just flat out misses on picks regardless of injuries. Remember the "most NFL ready" QB from the '08 draft? Brohm didn't miss because of injury and the Packers weren't the only team that graded him very high in that draft. How could people who get paid to analyze college players on a full time basis miss so badly? The answer is the draft is a crapshoot. Nearly everyone pays lip service to that idea but some post as though they don't believe it. Focusing on individual picks in the draft is foolish when evaluating the overall skill of any GM and his staff.

We may be missing the big picture here: Any numerologists in the crowd? The problem was exercising the 56th pick in the draft. Since Wolf took over the Packers have had that pick three times: 1996: Derrick Mayes; 2008: Brian Brohm; 2010: Mike Neal. The lesson? If the Packers ever find themselves holding that pick again, TRADE IT! (Just kidding re: last paragraph)

 

[PFanCan]

To expand on what SpartaChris posted, IMO at this point it would be foolish for Thompson to cut Neal. The Packers have already paid him the majority of his contract, the financial damage is already done. According to one source, Neal will cost $780K against the cap this season, in fact since he doesn’t get paid for those 4 games, his cap number should be less. Even if it isn’t, he’ll take up 0.65% of the “stated” $120.6M cap and the Packers cap is higher than that. And his deal is up after the 2013 season.

If Ted was to decide to cut Neal prior to camp, I would not consider him to be foolish at all. There are many valid and wise reasons to cut ties with Neal, including the PED situation and his suspension and the increasing odds that his potential will never be realized.

But, one extremely valid reason is simply to free up a spot for someone else in camp.

If Ted decides to let Neal go a year early rather than a year late, he could invite one more UDFA to camp to battle for this spot. IMO, there is nothing wrong with this strategy. Who knows... he just might find another Willie Wood (well, a DLine version of him) out there. No matter who he finds, this person would be available for all 16 games-- not just 12 as is a fact for Neal.

 

[PFanCan]

One thing working in Neal's favor to stay with the team this year is his salary- Less than $500k. At that salary, if he even makes a marginal improvement over last year it will be worth it.

Really? A marginal improvement over essentially zero production still pretty much sucks in my book. I am certainly not in favor of Ted keeping all those who did not produce at an acceptable level (Walden included) while hoping for marginal improvements across the board.

I personally hope that Ted rolls the dice with someone else this camp. But, if not, I will still be cheering my loudest for whatever team takes the field.

 

[AmishMafia]

Really? A marginal improvement over essentially zero production still pretty much sucks in my book. I am certainly not in favor of Ted keeping all those who did not produce at an acceptable level (Walden included) while hoping for marginal improvements across the board.

I personally hope that Ted rolls the dice with someone else this camp. But, if not, I will still be cheering my loudest for whatever team takes the field.

Neal's potential is likely higher than any ufa. So the tradeoff is potential vrs likelihood. I think Neal should be kept in camp to see how he does this offseason. We still have not seen him fully healthy to see what he can do. He still has not had a full offseason so I was interested to see how he does this coming season. My most positive spin is that he was taking something because of the injury. The fact that he appealed may mean there is some questions and more of the story to unfold.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Johnny Jolly appealed.

 

[AmishMafia]

Johnny Jolly appealed.

In between drug deals, yes, he appealed. Good point.

 

[GeeDogWarrior]

The way I figure, we whiffed on Justin Harrell, then we got Clay & Raji.
We whiffed on Mike Neal, hopefully we get another Clay/Raji combo....
Karma or something weird that in the end favors The Pack.