Moss a Packer?

[JbShell]

Also Porky just a few points I would like to make.

Yes Favre needs to be coached as every other player does.

In 2005 with injuries and F/A losses the team was not even a shell of it self. The old saying that your team is only as strong as your weakest link could not have been more true.

You speak of Tom Brady as you would have thought he jumped into a ice cold river and saved 10 babies from a car. I for one disagree with your premise that he is just this awesome QB.

While he is a damn good one he has also had the supporting cast arround him. He had/has a Coach that is one of the best in the league. An offensive line that is comparable to the 95/96 pack. Wideouts that are more than servicable and all can catch.

Brady has not been made to be the clutch guy. That guys is in a differant phase of the game called special teams. Without him they would have lost two Superbowls.

Brady is not and that is a risk taker that Favre is. He never had to be. He was a sheltered QB. Not to say he was not put in the fire but his exposer was limited by an excelent coaching staff. So to compare the two is pointless.

That is what Sherman/TT did not do for Favre last year. Without the run line or another threat at the WO posistion is was a like duck hunting for tame ducks.

Defenses would key on each play. I dont remeber what game it was. But I remeber a coach actually calling out the formation and play as GB lined up. That is very pathetic.

GB last year Played not to lose. They did not Play to Win and that and that alone is what makes a team Marginal.

Look at the Bears last year did well in the season until GB exposed thier weakness and when they got to the Playoffs they were targeted and played not to lose and got just that beat.

GB greatest deficincy last year was not talent but heart. From Coaching staff to certain players that pulled up in route as the ball was there. To players running willy nilly without dicipline.

Maybe this year a new attitude and a aggresive style will win the day. And they Pack will play to WIN

 

[porky88]

Porky,

I respect your opinion, but TomAllen summed it up exactly as I saw it. Before you start blaming Favre and our (allegedly) sub-par defense, let's have a look at the outcomes of 2006.

I never called the defense sub par. I think they overachieved and might of been worse than what the numbers indicate but they're as every bit to blame as last year as anyone else.

Now you can blame Favre for these losses, or try to debate that our D was no where near as good as our numbers suggest (I am still not sure how that works), but now lets see who we had for a supporting cast for Favre:

Again man I didn't blame Favre for the lost. I think people need to stop making excuses for a HOF QB and admit he wasn't on his game last year.

Walker, Green, Davenport, Franks, and Murphy were out with various injuries (mostly season-ending).

That's certainly apart of it as is Favre's poor decision making.

Now, let's see if I am understanding this argument correctly:

Our D is overrated because our opponents were sitting on 3 point leads and trying to run out the clock in 5 of our losses?

Never said that... You'll need to read my posts to understand my arguement.

Favre is completely to blame for all of his 29 INT, despite having only one proven WR, no running game and a handful of no-name backups that were signed off the street who were unfamiliar with both GB's complicated offense and NFL-level play?

Never completely blamed Favre. I continue to say he deserves some blame as do the players around him and the coaching was awful as well.

I think the person who was having the most trouble managing the game was the overrated ex-HC, who rather than going into a hurry-up offense when you are 10 points behind with less than 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter, would wander around the sidelines with a bewildered look on his face looking like a deer caught in headlights, all the while hoping his future HOF QB would (once again) perform a miracle in the last seconds to pull his *** out of the fire and come away with a win.

I agree, Sherman is too blame as well. As Head Coach it's his full responsibility to coach Favre and calm him down. It's his responsibility along with the other coaches to get the players around Favre ready. Coaching was awful last year as was Favre's decision making, as was the Green Bay Packers.

I am not going to say that Favre was not responsible for some of the INTs he threw last season, but saying he is washed up, over the hill or "mentally unprepared" because of last season's debaucle is ridiculous.

Never said that. Would you please go back and re read my posts and do it slowly. I think you more so skimmed them or read half of it and didn't get where I was going.

You mad the comment that, in your opinion, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning would have been able to do better in GB last year. Assuming that is the case, that still means that Favre is no worse than the other 29 QB that play in this league, and that hardly constitutes him being lablelled a "has been".

I never said Favre is a has been either. I believe currently Manning and Brady are the two best QB's in the game. They are in their prime. Favre is not. You can't possibly think Favre at 37 is as good as Favre at let's say 28. He's not and it's only natural really.

He still managed to finish in 3rd place overall in passing, throwing for 3881 yards with only one proven receiver who was constantly under double coverage. I'd like to see 29 of the 32 QBs we have in the league accomplish that with what he had to work with.

I never really made a list of QB's. I said my top 2 above. I'd have to think Favre would be in my top 10 which is very impressive for a 37 year old QB. Physically I did say he's one of the 7 best in the game.

GO PACK!!!

We agree

Robert C. Hedley

Rob I think you need to go back and read every word in my post. If you'd like to respond by pm, that is fine. The things you seemed to think I thought I don't and didn't post. I think if TA thought the same as you about my opinions, then he needs to go back and re read the post. I know they're long but when I say something, I try to make it mean something.

To sum it up on what I've said in this thread. Favre is not as good as he used to be. He can no longer make a average WR great like he did with Bill Schroeder. He needs to be coached better in his game management skills and overall decision making. Favre is too blame for the INT's as much as the WR's, O-line, coaching, etc.. Seems like people fade away and blame it on someone else. Football is a team oriented sport. Favre is still physically one of the best in the game. Mentally I question Favre from the things he's been saying.

 

[Vikeman]

Moss becoming a Packer is equivalent to this

http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/peeweedrugs.html

 

[Drich318]

Uh No, we don't need Moss. Period.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Uh No, we don't need Moss. Period.

We don't need Moss? No, not period. How can you say we do not need a receiver that can change the game in favor of your team?

 

[4packgirl]

cause it's his opinion, zero. an opinion i happen to agree with.

 

[Zero2Cool]

cause it's his opinion, zero. an opinion i happen to agree with.

Proof girls don't know much about football

 

[4packgirl]

quit pickin fights with me, zero. ya big dorky dork!!

bottom line is moss isn't going anywhere - sure as heck not to GB so what's the friggin point in arguing over something that isn't gonna happen? if we had the chance at him, i'd pass. if that means we have one more losing season, so be it. remember, i've been watching the packers since the 70's so i've been through tough times. i'd much rather get quality players who may need time to develop than jagoffs like T.O. or moss who might help put points on the board but will **** off everyone on the team.

i know more about football than most girls - the GAME of football, that is. i don't get freaked out with the draft or training camps like alot of guys do. i like to deal in the reality of the situation - NOT in the woulda, coulda, shoulda crap - that just makes me yawn.

 

[DakotaT]

Randy Moss becoming a Packer is equivelant to Jim Mcmahon holding a clipboard and receiving a 96 Super Bowl ring. Sacrilege

Hell no I don't want him, if we go after a Raider receiver, it better be Jerry Porter.

I know football is suppose to be a business, but some things are personal. Dallas signed TO this year after the Spike/Star thing, but we aren' t the Dallas Cowboys are we.

 

[Zero2Cool]

quit pickin fights with me, zero. ya big dorky dork!!

bottom line is moss isn't going anywhere - sure as heck not to GB so what's the friggin point in arguing over something that isn't gonna happen? if we had the chance at him, i'd pass. if that means we have one more losing season, so be it. remember, i've been watching the packers since the 70's so i've been through tough times. i'd much rather get quality players who may need time to develop than jagoffs like T.O. or moss who might help put points on the board but will **** off everyone on the team.

i know more about football than most girls - the GAME of football, that is. i don't get freaked out with the draft or training camps like alot of guys do. i like to deal in the reality of the situation - NOT in the woulda, coulda, shoulda crap - that just makes me yawn.

I'm not even gonna read this cuz I know I'll reply with something even stupidier that will get me in even more trouble lol

 

[4packgirl]

oh no you don't - i wanna hear your stupi....i mean your response. don't back down now - i can take it - i'm a tough chick!! well, sorta. just don't hurt my feelings, k?

 

[DakotaT]

oh no you don't - i wanna hear your stupi....i mean your response. don't back down now - i can take it - i'm a tough chick!! well, sorta. just don't hurt my feelings, k? )

Zero, this is triple dog dare time for you and I want to see someone besides me get their *** handed them today! I was in the middle of a pack of wolves (of my own doings of course) today and I still have my wife to fight with later.

Man up Zero!

 

[Zero2Cool]

lol

I try to chose my battles wisely. This one, man vs woman or however you wanna see it. The man is always wrong, always. Even if facts prove the man is right, he is indeed wrong.

 

[DakotaT]

lol

I try to chose my battles wisely. This one, man vs woman or however you wanna see it. The man is always wrong, always. Even if facts prove the man is right, he is indeed wrong.

Weak, very weak! You're married too, I take it!

 

[TomAllen]

Porky said..

Rob I think you need to go back and read every word in my post. If you'd like to respond by pm, that is fine. The things you seemed to think I thought I don't and didn't post. I think if TA thought the same as you about my opinions, then he needs to go back and re read the post. I know they're long but when I say something, I try to make it mean something.

To sum it up on what I've said in this thread. Favre is not as good as he used to be. He can no longer make a average WR great like he did with Bill Schroeder. He needs to be coached better in his game management skills and overall decision making. Favre is too blame for the INT's as much as the WR's, O-line, coaching, etc.. Seems like people fade away and blame it on someone else. Football is a team oriented sport. Favre is still physically one of the best in the game. Mentally I question Favre from the things he's been saying.

Porky,

I believe that many people strongly disagree with you and some of the things you are saying about Brett Favre because they are simply not true.

You cannot compare, for instance, the Packer team that Favre had when he was throwing to Billy Schroeder, to the Packer team of last year! And you also completely ignore the fact that the Packers were riddled with injuries last year, had an inept o-line, and green, inexperienced receivers, and no running game to boot!

I will defer to someone like Steve Young (and my own eyes) who said that Favre's skills have not really dropped off at all, and that it was the Packer's committment to winning championships last year that dropped off. Jimmy Johnson said something similar.

The point is is that you cannot hang all of this on Favre's shoulders considering the circumstances in GB last year, and from your posts you seem to be doing just that. You seem as if you can not accept and understand the fact that the Packer's sucked badly last year and blew chunks all over Lambeau field. Let's just hope it's a damn site better (and cleaner) this year out there on the gridiron.

That being said, adding Moss could only help the Pack out with Favre throwing to him. If they did sign him, it would keep teams from covering Donald Driver like a damn blanket with two DB's.

(and comparing Favre to Kerry Collins is just a low blow, completely below the belt, imo.)

 

[porky88]

Porky,

I believe that many people strongly disagree with you and some of the things you are saying about Brett Favre because they are simply not true.

It's really only 2 or 3. Zero seem to take my points valid and mentioned that the turnovers need to come down and hinted that Favre is at fault as well.

You cannot compare, for instance, the Packer team that Favre had when he was throwing to Billy Schroeder, to the Packer team of last year! And you also completely ignore the fact that the Packers were riddled with injuries last year, had an inept o-line, and green, inexperienced receivers, and no running game to boot!

Not comparing Schroeder’s Packers to 2005 Packers. Just comparing the talent level at WR which is fairly close. I haven't ignored the fact that Green Bay was injured. I've stated that's part of the reason he had 29 INT's as is his decision making.

I will defer to someone like Steve Young (and my own eyes) who said that Favre's skills have not really dropped off at all, and that it was the Packer's committment to winning championships last year that dropped off. Jimmy Johnson said something similar.

Physically Favre is still a top 4-7 QB. I said that as well. You'd know if you read my posts all the way through. Mentally I question him.

The point is is that you cannot hang all of this on Favre's shoulders considering the circumstances in GB last year, and from your posts you seem to be doing just that. You seem as if you can not accept and understand the fact that the Packer's sucked badly last year and blew chunks all over Lambeau field. Let's just hope it's a damn site better (and cleaner) this year out there on the gridiron.

This proves you didn't read my posts. I'm not blaming everything on Favre. I'm the only that is including him in the blaming. Here is the best line from one of my posts that sums up what I've been saying...

Favre was accountable for his actions as well.

Favre is just at fault as the player next to him. As the WR's running the "wrong" routes all day long. As the offensive line. As the coaching. Those aren't excuses for Favre like people seem to be making. Those are apart of the reason why Favre struggled as is Favre himself. That's what I've been saying. You don't throw 29 INT's and not have it be some just some of your fault.

That being said, adding Moss could only help the Pack out with Favre throwing to him. If they did sign him, it would keep teams from covering Donald Driver like a damn blanket with two DB's.

I agree..

(and comparing Favre to Kerry Collins is just a low blow, completely below the belt, imo.)

I was comparing Favre from last season to how Kerry Collins has played for his career. Lot of yards and lot of picks. In the 70's for his passer rating. I wasn't comparing Favre's entire career to Kerry Collins.

 

[TomAllen]

:shock: Sure Favre has accountability and can/should be coached.

But to me, to hold him responsible for last year to the degree that you wish to and suggest is ludicrous.

I think that Favre was tossing the ball up for grabs because there was nothing else he could do. Oh, he could have gone 3 and out time after time after time and gave BJ Sander a workout. But he chose to go down swinging and threw the ball up to give his receivers a chance to at least fight for a reception.

What else could he have done? Nothing else was working.

Why you can't seem to understand this is beyond me.

 

[porky88]

:shock: Sure Favre has accountability and can/should be coached.

But to me, to hold him responsible for last year to the degree that you wish to and suggest is ludicrous.

I think that Favre was tossing the ball up for grabs because there was nothing else he could do. Oh, he could have gone 3 and out time after time after time and gave BJ Sander a workout. But he chose to go down swinging and threw the ball up to give his receivers a chance to at least fight for a reception.

What else could he have done? Nothing else was working.

Why you can't seem to understand this is beyond me.

So Favre shouldn't be held responsible at all?

I'm just saying he should be. You can't put all the blame on coaching and other players and not Favre. He hurt the team as well. I'm putting the blame on Favre, other players, and the coaching. I'm not singling out just one or the other.

Taking a sack or throwing the ball away or throwing to a check down is smarter than throwing it up for grabs. Playing a game of field position goes under Favre learning to manage the game better.

Can't remember who said this but it's very accurate in my opinion

Of course Favre isn't as good as he used to be. He's my age. Duh..

Pretty much Favre isn't as good as he used to be. Last season is an indicator. He's still a good QB, just not as good as he used to be. He's no longer playing at the MVP level he can. It’s common sense for someone who is 37 not be as good as he was when he was 30. Rich Gannon is really the only exception I can think of.

Edit: I sure hope you think Favre needs coaching. They're isn't a player in the league that can go without coaching. Coaching is something every player needs to help make themeselves better.

 

[TomAllen]

If you think that Gannon is better than Favre at the same age...well...let's just say that this is a family forum, and I won't say what i'm thinking...

All I'm saying is that if TT would have signed SOMEONE with high level skills at WR, this year Favre would smoke the league and you would have to eat your words.

That's all i'm saying.

 

[all about da packers]

TA, I don't think porky meant that Gannon was better than Favre, I think he meant that when compared to a there younger days when players are in their prime, not many are better after their prime than during it.

Porky, I would actually say that Gannon was a product of the system, the system was designed to Gannon's strengths. In this regard I like McCarthy, I think his system will also be designed to Favre's strengths.

 

[porky88]

TA, I don't think porky meant that Gannon was better than Favre, I think he meant that when compared to a there younger days when players are in their prime, not many are better after their prime than during it.

Porky, I would actually say that Gannon was a product of the system, the system was designed to Gannon's strengths. In this regard I like McCarthy, I think his system will also be designed to Favre's strengths.

ADP thank you for being the only person to read my actual posts and not overreact

Gannon is the only QB I can think of that had his career years in his late 30's. Gannon did win an MVP at 36 I believe although I agree he was a product of the system.

 

[porky88]

If you think that Gannon is better than Favre at the same age...well...let's just say that this is a family forum, and I won't say what i'm thinking...

All I'm saying is that if TT would have signed SOMEONE with high level skills at WR, this year Favre would smoke the league and you would have to eat your words.

That's all i'm saying.

High leveled WR? Outside of TO was they're one. Eric Moulds ehh not really. Keyshaun Johnson not really..

I don't think I'll eat my words at all. Last year was clearly his worse year of his career and this year probably won't be his best.

I still wonder if you really get what I'm saying.....

 

[Zero2Cool]

TA, I don't think porky meant that Gannon was better than Favre, I think he meant that when compared to a there younger days when players are in their prime, not many are better after their prime than during it.

Porky, I would actually say that Gannon was a product of the system, the system was designed to Gannon's strengths. In this regard I like McCarthy, I think his system will also be designed to Favre's strengths.

ADP thank you for being the only person to read my actual posts and not overreact

Gannon is the only QB I can think of that had his career years in his late 30's. Gannon did win an MVP at 36 I believe although I agree he was a product of the system.

Thanks.

 

[4packgirl]

7 pages of arguing about what if?? crazy!

 

[DakotaT]

7 pages of arguing about what if?? crazy! )

Hold on 4packgirl, training camp is two weeks away!