McCarthy and Joe Philbin

[12theTruth]

I see the Miami Dolphins are now 3-0 and Philbin is doing an excellent job with Ryan Tannehill. The team plays together, is fun to watch and even has injury problems of their own.

Philbin left after Rodgers MVP season and it just seems that something is missing with the offense. I know we have had injuries but I can't help but wondering what if Philbin had stayed. He's done wonders so far for the Dolphins.

 

[7thFloorRA]

That is an excellent observation. Notice how the Dolphins are having fun as well as being fun to watch? Some of Packers look business like or miserable....especially Rodgers.

 

[12theTruth]

What must have gotten everyone's attention is when they went and stole one from the Colts on the road. A friend of mine has NFL Sunday Ticket and I've tried to catch some of the other games outside the Pack. The Dolphins and the Chiefs both looked totally requivenated with Philbin and Reid respectively as their coaches.

Philbin was someone who knew the offense as good or better than MM. Maybe he would have talked McCarthy out of that dud of a play call on 4th down today LOL

 

[7thFloorRA]

MM has always been a good leader of men, a good HC but as far as a play caller he is extremely questionable and always has been. Philbin being gone really exposes that. That naked bootleg pass to Quarless he rolled out twice today is just awful. Even best case scenario it gets you 3 yards. The risk reward ratio on that play is terrible.

 

[El Guapo]

I've brought this point up several times over the year now, as have others. Philbin was one heck of an asset to our offense that should not be overlooked. Then again, I still have faith in the guys that we've got, but they do need to improve

 

[12theTruth]

Yep, but its more prudent now then before as now Philbin can start to be compared as a head coach to McCarthy now that he has a full year under his belt. Its interesting that the Dolphins are 3-0 which quite a few no name players while the Packers are 1-2 with multiple stars.

Speaking of McCarthy, I see yesterday he says he probably overthought the 4th down call but now today he insists it was the right thing to do. Good old stubbon Mike. He's gonna get his yard one of these days darn it all!

 

[Forget Favre]

Wasn't MM the play caller even when Philben was still here?
What did he do?
Call down advice to MM from the booth onto the field and MM made the final call to the QB?

 

[Forget Favre]

I see the Miami Dolphins are now 3-0 and Philbin is doing an excellent job with Ryan Tannehill. The team plays together, is fun to watch and even has injury problems of their own.

Philbin left after Rodgers MVP season and it just seems that something is missing with the offense. I know we have had injuries but I can't help but wondering what if Philbin had stayed. He's done wonders so far for the Dolphins.

That was also the year his son died in that accident. Right?
So that probably had him wanting to get out of town or even the state ASAP so that he could move on with his life somewhere else.
I wouldn't blame him if that was motivation for him.

 

[HyponGrey]

Wasn't MM the play caller even when Philben was still here?
What did he do?
Call down advice to MM from the booth onto the field and MM made the final call to the QB?

He was also responsible for scouting the opposing D before the game and helping make the offensive game plan and adjustments. Now that's Clements' job.

 

[El Guapo]

Exactly, Philbin was the ULTIMATE behind the scenes guy for the Packers offense. He prepped the team for victory. MM handled the game-day execution of the Philbin-McCarthy game plans.

Philbin's son died the week leading up to our offensive meltdown against the Giants in the playoffs. There was much talk about how that event affected both Philbin and the team. Then he left. I've got nothing but respect for Philbin and am ecstatic to see his Dolphins doing well. I've always liked that franchise and have another reason to root for them in Philbin

 

[12theTruth]

Wasn't MM the play caller even when Philben was still here?
What did he do?
Call down advice to MM from the booth onto the field and MM made the final call to the QB?

I'm sure they didn't talk with each other during the entire game?? I'm sure there was some collaboration at times throughout the game and that collaboration would have came in handy let's say on an important 4th down call?? Clement is well liked but how would one measure his success in comparison to the former OC. I don't see how one can think that MM wouldn't consult with a trusted kindred spirit like Philbin at some point during the games.

 

[jaybadger82]

MM has always been a good leader of men, a good HC but as far as a play caller he is extremely questionable and always has been. Philbin being gone really exposes that.

This pretty much nails it for me.

Yep, but its more prudent now then before as now Philbin can start to be compared as a head coach to McCarthy now that he has a full year under his belt. Its interesting that the Dolphins are 3-0 which quite a few no name players while the Packers are 1-2 with multiple stars.

Speaking of McCarthy, I see yesterday he says he probably overthought the 4th down call but now today he insists it was the right thing to do. Good old stubbon Mike. He's gonna get his yard one of these days darn it all!

I didn't like the play call either but Franklin's failure to secure the football (not to mention attempting to dive over the pile) was even stupider. It was the fumble/Bengals TD that really made that play so devastating.

The significance of Philbin's departure was overlooked by many fans at the time. Good topic, 12theTruth.

 

[12theTruth]

This pretty much nails it for me.



I didn't like the play call either but Franklin's failure to secure the football (not to mention attempting to dive over the pile) was even stupider. It was the fumble/Bengals TD that really made that play so devastating.

The significance of Philbin's departure was overlooked by many fans at the time. Good topic, 12theTruth.

I agree with your overall thought. I work pal of mine said he blamed McCarthy 80% for calling the play and Franklin 20% for fumbling (as there is never an excuse for fumbling the ball). I just thought MM was setting his team up for failure was all. Going forward hopefully the arm of Aaron Rodgers gets us a multiple TD lead so we don't have to anguish over these things.

 

[HyponGrey]

In all fairness, Franklin had some security issues at UCLA and rookies put the ball on the ground more than anybody else. The pro game goes after that strip more than college ever did.

 

[Forget Favre]

Wasn't MM the play caller even when Philben was still here?
What did he do?
Call down advice to MM from the booth onto the field and MM made the final call to the QB?

Someone rated this as funny?
You can rate things however you want to and if you find it funny, that's cool.

I was serious and I'm curious.
To know what the heck is said through those headsets.
Like when I take a plane trip I like to listen to the pilot/air traffic chatter. 98% of the time I have no idea what the heck they are saying but I find it interesting.
I would love to listen in, even for just one game, to those coach headsets.
To those who did respond or try to answer, thanx. I appreciate that.

 

[El Guapo]

....wait, how can I listen to the pilot chatter?!? My flights are boring as can be

 

[jaybadger82]

I agree with your overall thought. I work pal of mine said he blamed McCarthy 80% for calling the play and Franklin 20% for fumbling (as there is never an excuse for fumbling the ball). I just thought MM was setting his team up for failure was all. Going forward hopefully the arm of Aaron Rodgers gets us a multiple TD lead so we don't have to anguish over these things.

Yeah- I would quibble with your co-worker's apportionment of the blame.

I'm often frustrated by MM's play calling but he can't secure the football for the offense; Franklin failed in his most basic responsibility as a RB. 80/20 is ridiculous. Ask your co-worker if MM is 80% at fault for Rodgers' second INT of the game.

 

[12theTruth]

Maybe you want to watch the play again. Less than a fraction of a second after Franklin was handed the ball he was met in the backfield by more than one Bengal. He was outnumbered and he is a rookie. He shouldn't have fumbled it is never going to result in a no fault situation for the offender but SERIOUSLY the play McCarthy called was destined for failure the moment the words left McCarthy's mouth.

Well more than half of the blame lies on Mike McCarthy for the sequence of events that really put a dagger in the Packers hopes. What in the way of evidence can be derived from that the run up the gut had a good chance for success. Now the party line is that the play was a wise call coming from the Packers. LOL

 

[Dan115]

True I too was surprised with the play.

 

[jaybadger82]

Maybe you want to watch the play again. Less than a fraction of a second after Franklin was handed the ball he was met in the backfield by more than one Bengal. He was outnumbered and he is a rookie. He shouldn't have fumbled it is never going to result in a no fault situation for the offender but SERIOUSLY the play McCarthy called was destined for failure the moment the words left McCarthy's mouth.

Well more than half of the blame lies on Mike McCarthy for the sequence of events that really put a dagger in the Packers hopes. What in the way of evidence can be derived from that the run up the gut had a good chance for success. Now the party line is that the play was a wise call coming from the Packers. LOL

1) So is the 80/20 split discussed above you or your co-worker?

2) In your universe, does the offensive line always escape blame when "less than a fraction of a second after Franklin was handed the ball he was met in the backfield by more than one Bengal?"

3) You seem preoccupied by the conclusion that the Packers seemed unlikely to convert on that play, which is fine. I didn't like the play call either. But if the fumble hadn't occurred, the Packers still hold a three point lead and turn it over on downs at the Bengal 30-yard line. An unfortunate result but not disastrous.

4) The play became a disaster because Franklin failed to secure the football. I've watched the film and I'm astounded by your willingness to overlook this in order to advance the argument that MM's play call was the most egregious thing ever...

It's not complicated. It's high school football 101. The RB's primary job is to secure the football because, there's no guarantee he won't meet defenders in the backfield. That's not on McCarthy and that's not beyond the abilities of a rookie RB in the NFL.

5) "What in the way of evidence can be derived from that the run up the gut had a good chance for success." -How about the fact that the Packers had a good afternoon on the ground against the Bengals up to that point. Discounting his 51-yard scamper, Franklin still averaged 4.3 yards per carry and had plenty of gains running between the tackles earlier that day. There's your evidence.

I get that you have an agenda with regards to foisting the lion's share of the blame on McCarthy for this play. I just hope others can consider all the facts objectively and recognize that there's plenty of blame to go around. Execution matters.

 

[12theTruth]

1) So is the 80/20 split discussed above you or your co-worker?

2) In your universe, does the offensive line always escape blame when "less than a fraction of a second after Franklin was handed the ball he was met in the backfield by more than one Bengal?"

3) You seem preoccupied by the conclusion that the Packers seemed unlikely to convert on that play, which is fine. I didn't like the play call either. But if the fumble hadn't occurred, the Packers still hold a three point lead and turn it over on downs at the Bengal 30-yard line. An unfortunate result but not disastrous.

4) The play became a disaster because Franklin failed to secure the football. I've watched the film and I'm astounded by your willingness to overlook this in order to advance the argument that MM's play call was the most egregious thing ever...

It's not complicated. It's high school football 101. The RB's primary job is to secure the football because, there's no guarantee he won't meet defenders in the backfield. That's not on McCarthy and that's not beyond the abilities of a rookie RB in the NFL.

5) "What in the way of evidence can be derived from that the run up the gut had a good chance for success." -How about the fact that the Packers had a good afternoon on the ground against the Bengals up to that point. Discounting his 51-yard scamper, Franklin still averaged 4.3 yards per carry and had plenty of gains running between the tackles earlier that day. There's your evidence.

I get that you have an agenda with regards to foisting the lion's share of the blame on McCarthy for this play. I just hope others can consider all the facts objectively and recognize that there's plenty of blame to go around.

It was a discussion initiated by me but my buddy had mentioned the percentage and I agreed it was a fair split.

No preoccupation whatsoever, just my opinion based on the Packers history of success in running such a play. And I have complete confidence that I have looked at it with objectivity not unlike Mike McCarthy who wavered in his confidence regarding the play from one day to the next.

It is McCarthy's job to set the team up for a successful outcome. If he had not called the play then the running back would not have even had the chance to fumble, correct? No, and by the way the masses are with me on this one as countless other 'objective' Packer fans have looked at the circumstances and have come to the conclusion that McCarthy blew it (poll on jsonline.com) .l. McCarthy deserves a larger share of the blame for this. Its a dumb play call first and foremost.

 

[El Guapo]

Actually, I'm kind of with Jaybadger on this one. I don't mind the play call. We should all be upset with the execution if anything. If everyone on this forum was "surprised" by the play call, then wouldn't it stand to reason that the Bengals would be as well? Had we run a stretch play to the outside that ended in the same result, wouldn't everyone be talking about how predictable it was that we ran away? Calling a 4th and inches play is mostly a guessing game. I think that it was a smart call based on Franklin's success that day. Every level of that play was executed horribly. Maybe the team wasn't properly prepared to execute it, so 20% blame to the coaches and 80% blame spread among the players.

 

[jaybadger82]

It was a discussion initiated by me but my buddy had mentioned the percentage and I agreed it was a fair split.

No preoccupation whatsoever, just my opinion based on the Packers history of success in running such a play. And I have complete confidence that I have looked at it with objectivity not unlike Mike McCarthy who wavered in his confidence regarding the play from one day to the next.

It is McCarthy's job to set the team up for a successful outcome. If he had not called the play then the running back would not have even had the chance to fumble, correct? No, and by the way the masses are with me on this one as countless other 'objective' Packer fans have looked at the circumstances and have come to the conclusion that McCarthy blew it (poll on jsonline.com) .l. McCarthy deserves a larger share of the blame for this. Its a dumb play call first and foremost.

I'm unimpressed by the number of omissions in your "objective" analysis and I'm unpersuaded by the popular knee-jerk reaction to the play on some jsonline.com poll hours after the loss.

The willingness to overlook complexity in favor of a simple, more singular cause is a common tendency amongst people. Hindsight is 20/20. The play didn't work so obviously it was the wrong call.

I didn't like the play call either but that doesn't mean the entire result is the fault of the play-caller. Poor execution transformed a failed play into a disastrous seven point swing and I think that's on the players.

This seems appropriate: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...hy-during-bye-week-b99105433z1-225135512.html
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...l?page=1#!page=2&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst
Mike Hunt is the best. Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt. Say that quickly and tell me that doesn't give you a chuckle...

 

[12theTruth]

I'm unimpressed by the number of omissions in your "objective" analysis and I'm unpersuaded by the popular knee-jerk reaction to the play on some jsonline.com poll hours after the loss.

The willingness to overlook complexity in favor of a simple, more singular cause is a common tendency amongst people. Hindsight is 20/20. The play didn't work so obviously it was the wrong call.

I didn't like the play call either but that doesn't mean the entire result is the fault of the play-caller. Poor execution transformed a failed play into a disastrous seven point swing and I think that's on the players.

This seems appropriate: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...hy-during-bye-week-b99105433z1-225135512.html
Mike Hunt is the best. Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt. Say that quickly and tell me that doesn't give you a chuckle...

Nope. When history gives you the answer you heed it and use it as a guide for better current success. Mike McCarthy did NOT do that in regards to the call in question.

By the way the "knee jerk" poll included responses far outside the window of just "hours" after the game.

 

[jaybadger82]

Nope. When history gives you the answer you heed it and use it as a guide for better current success. Mike McCarthy did NOT do that in regards to the call in question.

What "history?" -You seem to be totally overlooking the success of the Packers running game against the Bengals on Sunday. But it's inconvenient to your argument, so why acknowledge that?