Let's Talk About What's Going Right

[El Guapo]

There's a lot of talk about what's wrong with the Packers. A lot of negative thoughts are floating around so let's talk about what is going right and what looks to be improving.

1) Rookie Secondary - I think that these guys are showing some good skills as a group. Once they really start to understand the defense, I think they will turn into a solid group. I like their aggressive style and believe that this a group that will improve.

2) Defensive Line - Despite some of the criticism, I think that our defensive line has been putting more pressure on opposing quarterbacks. Neal looked pretty good for his first game back and I think that Worthy can work his way into things.

3) Special Teams - Masthay continues to do a pretty good job punting and I think that our coverage teams are doing well.

4) Running Game - With Benson running the ball we were getting better yards per attempt than in previous years. I would attribute that mostly to Cedric but we will see how much the OL played into that once the other Starks/Saine/Green are the primary runners.

5) Quarterback - Yes Rodgers isn't playing at a Super Bowl MVP level or a 15-1 level, but we all knew that he couldn't sustain that level. He's still playing pretty good but let's be honest, unless he's playing elite elite football he needs help from his receivers, his play caller, his O-line, and his running backs.

6) Offensive Line - Maybe not Bulaga, but the offensive line has been opening holes for the running game and doing a reasonable job of pass protection. You look worse than you really are when your quarterback doesn't have anyone to throw to and then takes sacks instead of throwing the ball away.

What else did I leave out?

 

[mradtke66]

I generally like the list. I would slightly adjust "the defensive line" to something more generic as "front seven pass rushers." Matthews, Perry, and Walden aren't the line but get the majority of rush opportunities.

 

[JBlood]

I like your optimism El G. But I am waiting for the 0-line to become a wrecking force.

 

[El Guapo]

Yeah, #7 really should have been the play of Matthews and Walden with a semi-nod to Perry as he understands the scheme a little better

 

[13 Times Champs]

I could debate just about every one of the points.

 

[Powarun]

I hate to add this but I think Shields is doing slightly better, he is tackling better and had such good coverage the refs flag him when he gets held. Though he still is a weak point in our secondary.

 

[Forget Favre]

I could debate just about every one of the points.

If you don't mind, I'll do it for ya in a general kind of sense with two questions.

1) If we are doing all those things right then why do we have a losing record?
2) Packers have to fix what's not working while at the same time prepare each week for a different team with different schemes. Is a week enough time for all that preparation?
For example, with this one:
1) Rookie Secondary - I think that these guys are showing some good skills as a group. Once they really start to understand the defense, I think they will turn into a solid group. I like their aggressive style and believe that this a group that will improve.
Will improve? Well, they gotta do it now. They can't wait like 3-5 games from now.

 

[El Guapo]

Well then allow me to retort.

1) Your statement implies that since we have a losing record, we are doing nothing right. I didn't list every position and I specifically stated in the original post that this thread was focusing on the things that we are doing well. If we sucked at everything, we wouldn't have even scored a point this season.
2) No, they don't "gotta do it now." This is football and rookies are generally expected to contribute while they learn. The exception seems to be highly touted first part of the first round picks, but I disagree with that mantra too. We may need and want them to contribute now, but they don't "gotta do it now." Having rookies succeed early is a bonus.

When you started your first real job out of high school or college, I hope that they cut you some slack while you learned the ropes. Even the hardest of jobs try to easy rookies into those positions. It's not easy being the new guy, especially if you got folks on internet forums saying that you've got to play like a seasoned veteran your first year.

 

[Forget Favre]

Well then allow me to retort.

1) Your statement implies that since we have a losing record, we are doing nothing right. I didn't list every position and I specifically stated in the original post that this thread was focusing on the things that we are doing well. If we sucked at everything, we wouldn't have even scored a point this season.

OK I'll go along with that assessment.

2) No, they don't "gotta do it now." This is football and rookies are generally expected to contribute while they learn. The exception seems to be highly touted first part of the first round picks, but I disagree with that mantra too. We may need and want them to contribute now, but they don't "gotta do it now." Having rookies succeed early is a bonus.

When you started your first real job out of high school or college, I hope that they cut you some slack while you learned the ropes. Even the hardest of jobs try to easy rookies into those positions. It's not easy being the new guy, especially if you got folks on internet forums saying that you've got to play like a seasoned veteran your first year.

Football is different than most other, say, blue collar jobs.
Yes, there are jobs with entry level positions where one can work their way up into upper management which could take years and years to get there.
But in football, they have already developed the skills needed in college for anywhere from 2-4 years and before that probably most or all of their lives.
So when a rookie enters the pros, even though there are some differences from college, he should still be ready to play at the pro level after at least a couple of decades to develop. And if he doesn't, he gets cut.
So I don't think these rookies should get any slack. If they can't play with the big boys, let them go.
Like look at Randall Cobb. His very first touch in a reg. season game started with a bang and he hasn't looked back once. ALL the rookies should aspire to play just like him on that level 24/7 from their very first pro Packers game onward.

 

[Alex]

I'd agree with everything except the secondary. The rookies are looking at Shields, Tramon and Woodsen as examples. While Woodsen has produced for the team consistantly from what I've seen this year Shields and Tramon have been getting burned on almost every play. I'd be afraid of either covering any receiver on man-to-man coverage because every time they do they're about 2-3 yards behind the receiver. I don't know if this is their effort to jump a rout or not but it seems they can't keep up with anyone running a rout. I feel like the pass rush is good enough where the DB's should be able to cover the wide outs enough to stop a play. I'm starting to think they need a complete overhaul

 

[13 Times Champs]

OK I'll go along with that assessment.


Football is different than most other, say, blue collar jobs.
Yes, there are jobs with entry level positions where one can work their way up into upper management which could take years and years to get there.
But in football, they have already developed the skills needed in college for anywhere from 2-4 years and before that probably most or all of their lives.
So when a rookie enters the pros, even though there are some differences from college, he should still be ready to play at the pro level after at least a couple of decades to develop. And if he doesn't, he gets cut.
So I don't think these rookies should get any slack. If they can't play with the big boys, let them go.
Like look at Randall Cobb. His very first touch in a reg. season game started with a bang and he hasn't looked back once. ALL the rookies should aspire to play just like him on that level 24/7 from their very first pro Packers game onward.

The problem is these guys have to accelerate their learning for us to be a factor come January. That being said I actually think the rookies have accounted themselves better than some of the vets.

 

[rodell330]

The o-line is getting to much kudos imo. They need to "fix their pad level". Heres an ideal, how about get tough and just block the man and front of you.

 

[packerfan4ever]

I thought this was a positive thread seems like we are stiil pointing out negative,so I will start being positive special teams is doing good things and the o-line think they are going to gel Sunday night just a feeling

 

[rodell330]

I thought this was a positive thread seems like we are stiil pointing out negative,so I will start being positive special teams is doing good things and the o-line think they are going to gel Sunday night just a feeling

Week 6 into the season i sure hope so.

 

[TJV]

All this just my opinion: The first positive is they’ve played well enough to be 3-2. Newhouse has pass-protected better than I expected. Jones has been more dependable than any receiver save Cobb. The pressure on opposing QBs has definitely improved. Neal “flashed” in his first game back. Mathews remains incredibly consistent (something this season is teaching us is not to take that for granted). Perry is progressing well and Walden has significantly improved – Walden brings an attitude that I hope infects the rest of the D. Shields has significantly improved and Williams looks more like his 2010 self than his 2011 performance. House looked great before he got injured, Hayward has looked good in his limited number of snaps and McMillian brings a physical presence at safety. All that means Jarrett Bush is doing what he does best on STs and is not playing D. And Tim Masthay has been great (lauding the punter is a double-edged sword but he has been great).

- - -

Why a Packers fan would “hate to admit” Shields is “doing slightly better…” is beyond me. And I disagree with he’s doing “slightly” better – he’s significantly better than he was last season. And I don’t know which games Alex is watching – Shields and Williams have been getting burned almost every play? No, for some reason Shields has been the victim of BS calls – on the two long plays in which he was called for PI, he had perfect coverage and the official – one replacement, one “real” had their heads up their ***es. Shields has been much, much better tackling. Williams is on pace to have career highs in passes defensed and tackles and to tie his best year for INTs. Woodson has set an incredibly standard of play so when I type he’s been slightly disappointing to me, it should be taken with that in mind. I also expected more impact plays from Burnett. Average play by the Packers offense so far this season would have made the entire D look much better.

Edit: FrankRizzo posted this link on the Texans thread: http://packersinsider.com/2012/10/u...ackers-can-knock-off-unbeaten-houston-texans/ As someone (like most of you) who has watched every Packers play at least once this season I find it incredibly positive towards the Packers. Maybe just because our standards are so high. But it offers a statistically based review which gives the Packers a realistic chance of winning Sunday.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Average play by the Packers offense so far this season would have made the entire D look much better.

Winner!

 

[BrettsFavor]

I'm not sure I'm ready to trust Shields again. Hayward is earning it much quicker.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Hey the D is 16th overall. That's a hell of an improvement over 32nd. When you consider how many rookies are in the mix it is even more impressive. The rooks are only going to get better as the season progresses so I look for our D to improve. There's a reason CM's sack production has gone back up.

The O will get it together and like in 2010 the injuries are giving the young guys a chance to build there skills and add depth. I for one am not disparing about our team.

Nice thread.

 

[Raptorman]

"Let's Talk About What's Going Right"


This should be short.

 

[weeds]

Truthfully Raptor, that was the first thing that popped into my mind as well.

Be it bad luck and poor execution or a combination of the two ... the Packers are playing like a sub-.500 team right now. Is it a lack of preparation or motivation or coaching prep, or what have you? I don't know ... I'm one of those guys who firmly believes that any team, in any sport makes its own good luck. Looking for 'positives' in this 2-3 start is a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Shawnsta3]

It's weird with Rodgers as of late. Our offensive system is supposedly built to "help the quarterback" meaning while Rodgers isn't a "system" QB, he does have the offense designed around him. All these guys around him are there to make him better. Now the guys around him aren't playing well and neither is Rodgers really, so it's hard to tell who's more at fault. Most likely, the blame should be shared.

 

[Southpaw]

Clay is getting to the QB and Casey Heyward looks like he could be really good.

Other than that. I haven't seen much upside so far.

 

[12theTruth]

Well if we compare the defense to last year, the defense is markedly better. They still have position players that have obvious deficiencies.. Hawk in pass coverage Woodson 3 steps too slow, Raj- always injured, etc. A great defense can't afford to have starters that have such deficiencies at critical functions of performing defense.

And even though there are flashes of greatness, the achilles heels are too great to be relied on for a playoff run.

On paper this offense should have been off the charts. Rodgers and Co. way below expectations so nothing right on offense.

I'd have to give a thumbs up to Masthay. He's been solid to very good this year.

 

[El Guapo]

So here is our Jeckyl & Hyde team, looking superb against the Bears and Texans, pretty good against a high-powered Saints team, but losing to the 49ers, Seahawks, and Colts. I still believe that we are doing a lot of good things. It's a delicate balance when we swing towards everything working versus doing enough wrong to lose.