let's talk about the D-line

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cara murphy

cara murphy

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Peppers will be used as a hybrid multiple-position player along the defensive and will play linebacker, defensive end, and defensive tackle.The addition of peppers will improve our D-line.
 

JBlood

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I think MM and Capers both agree that the defensive schemes were too complicated for a young group of players. The Genius of the 3/4 , **** LeBeau, agrees. The defensive calls this year are supposed to be easier, which should put players in position to make plays. If this is true, we'll find out early on which players can play, and which ones can't.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Don't know what you're talking about there as Raji had by far his best season playing NT in 2010.

Raji's "best" season in 2010 really only goes to show how poorly he's played since then. People only remember how well he played in the playoffs that year (and he played VERY well in the playoffs). During the regular season he had his best production rushing the passer but he was terrible against the run. He had a grand total of 32 tackles in 884 snaps during the regular season. For comparison, a good NT in Pouha of the NYJ that year had 49 tackles in only 567 snaps. He also had very few actual stops on defense considering the number of snaps that he played.

I also don't know why people ignore his 2011 season when he played NT almost the entire year and had his worst season as a pro (narrowly beating out his abysmal 2013).
 

Pkrjones

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I can't wait to see what Capers has in mind for this D-Line. Raji & Pennel (who?) are the only guys over 320, Guion is 315, and all other DL's are 285-310 ish. These are NOT the "classic 3/4" defensive linemen, so I'm curious what alignment these guys do fit? If we had ILB's that were fast AND thumpers the DL's could slash, penetrate and disrupt because the ILB's could/would clean-up... but that's NOT who TT's assembled at ILB.
 

brandon2348

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I can't wait to see what Capers has in mind for this D-Line. Raji & Pennel (who?) are the only guys over 320, Guion is 315, and all other DL's are 285-310 ish. These are NOT the "classic 3/4" defensive linemen, so I'm curious what alignment these guys do fit? If we had ILB's that were fast AND thumpers the DL's could slash, penetrate and disrupt because the ILB's could/would clean-up... but that's NOT who TT's assembled at ILB.


That's what is so exciting about it for me. The D-line is faster and more athletic upfront over all. Got a few guys that are 4.8 - 4.9 speed up front.
 

HyponGrey

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I can't wait to see what Capers has in mind for this D-Line. Raji & Pennel (who?) are the only guys over 320, Guion is 315, and all other DL's are 285-310 ish. These are NOT the "classic 3/4" defensive linemen, so I'm curious what alignment these guys do fit? If we had ILB's that were fast AND thumpers the DL's could slash, penetrate and disrupt because the ILB's could/would clean-up... but that's NOT who TT's assembled at ILB.
Actually it's been rumored that Boyd bulked up to 320+
 

Einstein McFly

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Where we usually got gashed in the run game was when we were in the nickel. If we were in the 3-4, we were pretty good against the run - witness the Forty-Niner games where we played the 3-4 more often.

Depending on opponent, Capers would utilize the 3-4, but for the most part Capers used the 2-4 as his base. Anytime an opponent trotted out 3 wides, he would counter with the 2-4, regardless of down/distance. So, on 1st and 10 Capers would have Pickett and Raji at DT, and Brad Jones and Hawk at LB - those were the only 4 guys in the box. If it was a run and the RB cleared the line, our LB's simply aren't very good and we would get gashed a lot of the time. We simply don't have the talent at ILB to line up like that IMO.

I don't think we will play more 3-4 this year than last, but I do think we will play more 3-3 and 4-2; and when we do play 2-4, we will have Peppers on the field as one of the LB, so that makes that alignment better as well.

Still, our ILB's are below average, so we have to hope improved line play in front of them will help them as well as in the back end.

I do think we'll be better this year - can't be much worse. Statistically, we fielded one of the worst defenses in the league last year.
Am I the only one who remembers how many games we lost in the last drive on defense when we KNEW they were gonna run and couldn't stop it? All of this "versatility" and "hybrid pass rushers" doesn't mean much if you can't put guys on the field who can stuff it when they're going to run.
 

Einstein McFly

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That's what is so exciting about it for me. The D-line is faster and more athletic upfront over all. Got a few guys that are 4.8 - 4.9 speed up front.
....but if they can't stop the run with eight in the box in the last five minutes it doesn't matter how fast they are. It doesn't make sense to get clever and complicated if you can't stop obvious and simple.
 

brandon2348

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....but if they can't stop the run with eight in the box in the last five minutes it doesn't matter how fast they are. It doesn't make sense to get clever and complicated if you can't stop obvious and simple.

Yeah I know. I was surprised they did as well as they did against the Niners in the playoff game. Other then Kaepernick popping off a few runs they held them pretty well in check for the most part.

That for me is the big question this year is the D being able to slow down the run. Especially late in games. With that said I don't think our defense needs to be a top 5 defense to reach the ultimate goal. If they can just get off the field a few times a game and get some more turnovers and hold em to 3 more, I think they will be alright.

Maybe with Peppers playing the Elephant and having three additional D-lineman plus Clay in the game will help some. That and you would think that some of these high D-line draft picks that have been made will start developing and contributing. I hope Clinton-Dix works out but I was a fan of trading up and getting Mosley.
 

wist43

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Am I the only one who remembers how many games we lost in the last drive on defense when we KNEW they were gonna run and couldn't stop it? All of this "versatility" and "hybrid pass rushers" doesn't mean much if you can't put guys on the field who can stuff it when they're going to run.

We're talking about different situations - your bringing up the static 3-4 in which the DL's job is to eat up blocks and the LB's are supposed to clean up.

With Matthews out, our LB's simply aren't very good. Brad Jones and Hawk have to be among the worst starting ILB's in the league; LOLB was usually manned by either a converted DL that didn't want to be there (Perry), or another converted DL; and with Matthews out it was a revolving door.

In answer to this, TT brought in exactly zero LB's to improve the positions, rather he brought in a couple more converted DL.

Most Packer fans wanted to see TT address ILB in some fashion in the draft; be it with CJ Mosely, Shazier, or Jones, et al later on...

There's plenty of blame to go around for all of the failings of the defense. Whether it is the pathetic Safety play, putrid ILB play, ill-fitting scheme to players, injuries, etc.

What I've been focused on is getting the nickel defense fixed, as we play the nickel over 65% of the time. True, I would like to play more base, but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Now, with almost no true 3-4 personnel left on the team I don't know that playing more base makes sense either.
 

GreenBaySlacker

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If our NT stinks the safeties won't matter. If teams can get 5 yards per carry on the ground, the safety play isn't really going to mean much. Also, people seem to expect HaHa to come in and know the defense inside-and-out, that's not really too realistic. It may well happen, but it wouldn't be surprising to see Hyde as the starter at the beginning of the year.

Not to be too optimistic. But when I watch Haha's Alabama highlights. He sure looks like he can do it all. Hope he translates well to our team... An example of a difference maker safety is Micah Hyde. Now he was a CB last year technically. But he was allowed to play as a hybrid imo, and his instincts had him in on every tackle it seemed... In the college highlights, Clinton-Dix showed the same go get it instincts Hyde shows. Followed by a solid consistant tackle. Hyde also finishes the tackles, which is why he went from shitbird to starter in one season... If Butler, Sharper, and Collins showed me anything.... Is that it takes years to be truely great at the position. I was calling for Sharper and Collins head for a few years before they finally blossomed... I was very wrong. Burnett was a stud as a rookie too... Here in year 5 he should be coming into his own very soon. That will help the young guys...

I didnt even bring up Hyde and Dix ball hawking skills... They both can do it all IMO. All three in actuality.

All in all. If Dix comes in and tackles like Hyde. And Hyde takes another step in the right direction...Burnett may have to become a star just to keep his job in GB......
 

Einstein McFly

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We're talking about different situations - your bringing up the static 3-4 in which the DL's job is to eat up blocks and the LB's are supposed to clean up.

With Matthews out, our LB's simply aren't very good. Brad Jones and Hawk have to be among the worst starting ILB's in the league; LOLB was usually manned by either a converted DL that didn't want to be there (Perry), or another converted DL; and with Matthews out it was a revolving door.

In answer to this, TT brought in exactly zero LB's to improve the positions, rather he brought in a couple more converted DL.

Most Packer fans wanted to see TT address ILB in some fashion in the draft; be it with CJ Mosely, Shazier, or Jones, et al later on...

There's plenty of blame to go around for all of the failings of the defense. Whether it is the pathetic Safety play, putrid ILB play, ill-fitting scheme to players, injuries, etc.

What I've been focused on is getting the nickel defense fixed, as we play the nickel over 65% of the time. True, I would like to play more base, but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Now, with almost no true 3-4 personnel left on the team I don't know that playing more base makes sense either.

The whole "lighter, more explosive pass rushing dline" thing works great if you're usually playing with a lead and you know the other team has to pass a lot to catch you. That's what the old Manning colts teams were all about. You saw how it went the year he was out. If our offense isn't WAY better than every other teams' out there then we're going to find ourselves at one point with a team running down the clock on us by running the ball and we won't be able to stop it. That's what worries me without big uglys like Pickett/Jolly or better on the team.
 

brandon2348

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The whole "lighter, more explosive pass rushing dline" thing works great if you're usually playing with a lead and you know the other team has to pass a lot to catch you. That's what the old Manning colts teams were all about. You saw how it went the year he was out. If our offense isn't WAY better than every other teams' out there then we're going to find ourselves at one point with a team running down the clock on us by running the ball and we won't be able to stop it. That's what worries me without big uglys like Pickett/Jolly or better on the team.

Yeah. Might be a problem if Flynn or Tolzien is starting.
 

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