Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback is..

tromadz

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Raider Pride said:
I will get take the ownership of getting him to log into "TROM'S Game Day Chat Drunk Fest." and then we can pick apart his real life.

Cal is bringing us all some really great thread stuff here.

R.P.

It's "The Tromadz Lounge" not trom's game day chat drunk fest. Lounge makes it classier, but not less drunkier. God I cant wait to get trashed in there again. Hurry up, preseason games!

And all are welcome!
 

Raider Pride

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Raider Pride said:
I will get take the ownership of getting him to log into "TROM'S Game Day Chat Drunk Fest." and then we can pick apart his real life.

Cal is bringing us all some really great thread stuff here.

R.P.

It's "The Tromadz Lounge" not trom's game day chat drunk fest. Lounge makes it classier, but not less drunkier. God I cant wait to get trashed in there again. Hurry up, preseason games!

And all are welcome!

I Stand Corrected. It is indeed the "TROMDAZ LOUNGE"

Here is a review for those who have never entered the Tromdaz Lounge.

Marco says:

Sunday 12/15/07 3:34 PM

OLe, OLe, OLe awsome place!!! reminds me of Spain, Miami and New York... Like a well mixed cocktail the Tromdaz lounge comes together. In the end making people happy is why Trom is in business. I love this place, great environment, very nice!!!
 

PackOne

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

I have been in the Tromadz Lounge. It is the place to be. If your looking for WOW's, CRAP's, and YESSSSSSSSS's, you need look no further.
 
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Cal2GreenBay

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Cal2GreenBay , how do you know so much about Cal/Tedford? Thanks for the great posts!


Dude..read bearinsider.com forum and you'll see that I am only one of MANY geeky statmeisters in the Cal football alumni.

My knowledge is MINIMAL compared to the geeks at Berkeley.

I am one, but not as talented as they are w/rattling off facts.
 

porky88

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Cal,

It's not a matter of anyone or at least myself doubting Rodgers ability to carry a team and win a game, it's the fact that the Packers have a great team and Rodgers shouldn't have to win a game on his own.

The one thing Favre did last year better than maybe ever is manage the game. He was very efficient with the ball and was patient. It didn't come until really the Denver game until the deep ball started to develop for the offense followed by the running game. That was really when the Packers became an elite offense.

Rodgers should be able to step in do what Favre did early on in the season. Be effcient and do enough to win the game but not over do it. When a QB specifically tries to win the game on his own you're going to get bad results. Favre in 2005 really did that and mostly because the level of talent around him wasn't very good. That's not the case with the talent any longer.

I don't expect Rodger's first start to be a 4 TD day. I wouldn't mine it but that wouldn't be fair to Rodgers if I expect that. However I expect him to do enough to win and I'm not doubting that the Packers will attack the field. I do think he'll execute the game plan really good. He actually might be a better fit for McCarthy's offense than what Favre was and you're hearing things like that from around the NFL.

Over the course of the season Rodgers should go from "game manager" to one of the better QB's in the NFC possibly. That's IF he lives up the the hype and I definitely believe he's capable of it.

Really my only concern is if he can stay healthy but then again injuries happen to every player, even Brett Favre had quite a few.
 

Veretax

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Why don't we wait until A-Rod has a few starts under his belt before we apply a label to him.
 

Tiger

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Over the course of the season Rodgers should go from "game manager" to one of the better QB's in the NFC possibly. That's IF he lives up the the hype and I definitely believe he's capable of it.

Really my only concern is if he can stay healthy but then again injuries happen to every player, even Brett Favre had quite a few.

I really dont think ARod is being hyped in national media, he's practically the most unknown starting QB in the league cos until the Cowboys game all his play didnt mean anything cos he simply wasnt ready. Hes the best kept secret in the NFL and is gonna be a steal in Fantasy Football because of both his own play and that of his talented team mates. If Derek Anderson can make the probowl then theres no reason ARod cant.
 

Zombieslayer

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Cal,

It's not a matter of anyone or at least myself doubting Rodgers ability to carry a team and win a game, it's the fact that the Packers have a great team and Rodgers shouldn't have to win a game on his own.

The one thing Favre did last year better than maybe ever is manage the game. He was very efficient with the ball and was patient. It didn't come until really the Denver game until the deep ball started to develop for the offense followed by the running game. That was really when the Packers became an elite offense.

Rodgers should be able to step in do what Favre did early on in the season. Be effcient and do enough to win the game but not over do it. When a QB specifically tries to win the game on his own you're going to get bad results. Favre in 2005 really did that and mostly because the level of talent around him wasn't very good. That's not the case with the talent any longer.

I don't expect Rodger's first start to be a 4 TD day. I wouldn't mine it but that wouldn't be fair to Rodgers if I expect that. However I expect him to do enough to win and I'm not doubting that the Packers will attack the field. I do think he'll execute the game plan really good. He actually might be a better fit for McCarthy's offense than what Favre was and you're hearing things like that from around the NFL.

Over the course of the season Rodgers should go from "game manager" to one of the better QB's in the NFC possibly. That's IF he lives up the the hype and I definitely believe he's capable of it.

Really my only concern is if he can stay healthy but then again injuries happen to every player, even Brett Favre had quite a few.

Without trying to sound nitpicky, I think we became an elite O in the 2nd week, when MM started looking at opposing Ds and finding their weaknesses and exploiting them, and making absolutely sick halftime adjustments.

I think you're right about Rodgers. He won't start off with a 4 TD game, but he'll have them later on in the season. I think we'll see Rodgers looking a lot like the '07 Favre, kind of the "game manager" that MM wants him to be. MM wants a balanced O, but he knows how to exploit weaknesses. If a team is #1 against the run but #32 against the pass, expect us to pass 80% of the time that game and vice versa.
 

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Again, alot of hype.

I think Rodgers is much closer to Dilfer than Montana, imo. To even mention him in the same breath as Montana is truly remarkable.

Tedford QB's don't know how to read defenses in the NFL. Plain and simple. Not one of them has panned out. If you don't believe me, read this guy's article. There are some good quotes from actual NFL scouts in this article.

Rodgers joins the Tedford Five


Jeff Tedford's star QB pupils have hardly taken the NFL by storm
By Trent Modglin ([email protected])
April 21, 2005

Kyle Boller

Between Janet’s supposed “wardrobe malfunction” at the Super Bowl two years ago and, more currently, Michael’s controversial court case, the Jackson Five has had nowhere to hide from its critics in the media.

Neither has the “Tedford Five,” but for far different reasons.

The head of the family for the Tedford Five is Jeff Tedford, head coach at the University of California and longtime offensive guru on the West Coast’s collegiate scene. Wherever he goes, gaudy offensive numbers seem to follow. It’s what he does best.

The Tedford Five is made up of Trent Dilfer, Akili Smith, David Carr, Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller, the five current quarterbacks in the NFL who were under the tutelage of Tedford while serving as big men on campus. Needless to say, the Tedford Five has not had any hit records. No Grammys, no blockbuster tours, not much of anything to stir the pages of Rolling Stone or get MTV abuzz.

For the most part, they’ve lacked the stage presence necessary to hit it big. You could say they’ve struggled thus far, and with Cal’s Aaron Rodgers, another Tedford protege, primed to be an early pick on Saturday, everyone wants to know why, reasonable concerns that they are.

Typically, the passers selected in the first round of the draft are destined to find themselves under a heap of pressure to try to resurrect flawed teams with surrounding casts that are, shall we say, less than desirable. Things can start off rocky, and often do. But if the talent and mind for the game are prevalent, things usually even out and careers begin an upswing.

Not so with the Tedford Five. Collectively, they have a 98-127 record as starting quarterbacks in the NFL. They’ve completed a paltry 54.6 percent of their passes and thrown 28 more interceptions than touchdowns. Numbers not worth writing home about to be sure.

Sure, Dilfer tasted Super Bowl success with Baltimore following the 2000 season, but with the Ravens’ dominating defense and workhorse RB Jamal Lewis, Dilfer hardly was asked to put an undaring offense on his shoulders. He served more as gatekeeper than anything else. He was cast aside after the victory parade, and since then has mainly served as a backup in Seattle before being traded to Cleveland this offseason.

Smith, a bust of epic proportions after being drafted third overall by the Bengals in 1999, has thrown five touchdowns in 17 career starts. By comparison, Peyton Manning threw for five scores on three different occasions last year. Once, he decided to toss a half-dozen. Smith, his career on its last legs, has been allocated to NFL Europe by the Buccaneers to try to scoop up the pieces of his shattered confidence.

It’s far too early to pull the plug on the other three, but patience is a virtue not always afforded to players in our modern version of the NFL. And Carr, the No. 1 overall pick in 2002, Harrington, the third that same year and Boller, the 19th pick in 2003, can’t exactly be accused of abusing defensive backs to this point despite plenty of starting experience. Lofty expectations have yet to be met, or for that matter, even approached.

All of these pupils of Tedford’s system have in the past been quick to circle the wagons in his defense. Rodgers, who threw for 43 TD passes and 13 interceptions in his two years at the helm in Berkeley and completed 23 consecutive passes against top-ranked USC in 2004, has said the criticisms of his former coach’s teachings are unfounded, mostly “manufactured.”

Tedford provides a solid foundation and trains quarterbacks to make quick reads in a complex West Coast offense, they say. Even involves them in game planning. Tedford himself says he has never been informed by NFL decision-makers that there is any particular element holding his guys back once they reach the next level. No lack of fundamentals, no shortage of seasoning, no problems picking up the intricacies of the position. Nothing glaring. No red flags to speak of.

That much seems somewhat evident, based on where his prodigies continue to get drafted. So why the disparity? Why doesn’t the eye-popping collegiate success in Tedford’s system translate over into smooth 80-yard drives and highlight-reel touchdowns in the NFL?

Are these guys too mechanical? Do they have trouble adjusting out of the comfort level of Tedford’s high-percentage lesson plans and into a new offense that requires taking more chances? Are they overrated as “system quarterbacks” only to be overwhelmed at the next level?

Listen to the opinion recently offered to PFW by a veteran league scout.

“I've evaulated four Tedford quarterbacks, and none of them have pissed a drop in the league,” he said. “That scares me. Kyle Boller was not even a 50 percent career passer when Tedford got ahold of him, and look what he is now in the pros.”


In case you’re keeping score at home, that’s not a compliment. Boller’s accuracy hasn’t earned rave reviews. But it gets better. Or worse, depending on how you look at it.

“They don't throw the ball downfield a lot in Tedford's offense. Look at Joey Harrington now. He doesn’t keep his eyes downfield. He looks to dump everything off. He gets impatient in the pocket. Akili Smith only had one good year of football, and it was with Tedford (then at Oregon State). Tedford simplifies the game and gets so much out of his quarterbacks. No one in the NFL has been able to get the same out of them as he has."

And that is scary. In the four games this scout watched Rodgers play as a collegian, he was sacked 16 times. He believes Rodgers will have a tough time escaping an NFL pass rush and isn’t overly athletic. While his arm strength is considered good, Rodgers threw the ball downfield twice in the four games the scout watched. We’ve heard from a few reliable NFL people that Rodgers is more of a late-first or possibly even early second-round talent who is being pushed way up the board because franchise-type quarterbacks in this draft are scarce.

But what about these NFL coaches who have had the “Tedford Five” under their supervision? They shouldn’t exactly be allowed to slip out the door when fingers start getting pointed in blame. Does the learning process suddenly come to a grinding halt? If they’re talented enough to be coached to rack up big numbers by Tedford, why can’t they be once they start getting the big bucks to play the same game?

“I know our staff wants guys who do not need a lot of seasoning,” one AFC coach said, suggesting that maybe Tedford’s guys do in fact need an extra dose. “We want guys who can step in and compete right away and don't need to be taught mechanics. Coaching schemes and assignments is a far cry from teaching technique. The good coaching staffs in this league — and the teams you see going to the Super Bowl — are the teams that do both. I think that's a big problem around here and on many staffs. Not enough attention is paid to coaching players. You can ask players. I think a lot of them will tell you they got more individual coaching in college. In my opinion, that's why there's a dropoff with ‘Tedford quarterbacks.’ "

So maybe it’s not just Tedford quarterbacks. Maybe he gets a bad rap because, after all, he’s trying to win college games. Maybe it’s Spurrier quarterbacks too. Plenty of others have had problems. Ever see David Klingler or Ryan Leaf? Maybe it’s these “Tedford passers” not getting the same individual attention from their pro coaches. Maybe successful quarterbacking is more about being in the right place at the right time, sticking it out until everything eventually comes together and kids suddenly go scrambling for your jerseys and posters and a table is suddenly reserved for you at the hottest restaurant in town.

Then again, maybe the Tedford Five will have to make room for another chair at the table. Let’s give Rodgers ample time before making a final decision on his worth, though. The NFL on its own doesn’t consent to much as it is, so we probably should.
 

Pack93z

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Vince_Favre vs Cal2GreenBay.. I can see this one shaping up to be a dozy.. get your tickets now.. front row seats will fill fast.. :lol: Maybe a triple threat match with Trom filling the other slot.. PackerSlam 08'.

Vince_Favre.. I am kidding for the most part.. welcome to the forum, I see you are going to offset the positive spin everyone is putting on young Aaron..

But to group him with the Tedford five is a bit premature as well.. first things first.. Smith and Boller are dimmer than 20 watts bulbs, and I am not sold on Carr or Harrington being a high IQer either.. Tilfer did alright in this league.. but regardless Aaron seems to be a little different than at least 4 of the 5.. seems to have the IQ upstairs and just as importantly he wasn't rushed into NFL action to muddy the water further..

Don't pass judgement unitl we have seen the kid play multiple weeks and then lets have this debate.
 

Vince_Favre

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Let's hope so.

The book on Tedford qb's in the nfl has not been so good.

I tend not to be as optimistic as some posters that I've seen on the boards. Some actually seem happy that Favre retired and that Rodgers is playing.

I just don't see why people are so happy to see a hof'er go and put so much faith in an unknown quantity. We will know alot more about him when and if he completes a full nfl season.
 

Pack93z

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Vince_Favre said:
Let's hope so.

The book on Tedford qb's in the nfl has not been so good.

I tend not to be as optimistic as some posters that I've seen on the boards. Some actually seem happy that Favre retired and that Rodgers is playing.

I just don't see why people are so happy to see a hof'er go and put so much faith in an unknown quantity. We will know alot more about him when and if he completes a full nfl season.

I don't think a soul here was happy to see Favre go.. some cried even, but the fact of the matter is that he left because he thought it was the right time for him. So as fans of the Packers, you have little choice to accept it and embrace a young man that has been tutoring under Favre for a couple of years.

I wanted Favre back as much as the next fan, but by the looks of the press conference time had worn on Favre and his family, and it was time to hang them up and focus on the family.

On Rodgers.. why not be optimistic?
 
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Cal2GreenBay

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Vince_Favre said:
Let's hope so.

The book on Tedford qb's in the nfl has not been so good.

I tend not to be as optimistic as some posters that I've seen on the boards. Some actually seem happy that Favre retired and that Rodgers is playing.

I just don't see why people are so happy to see a hof'er go and put so much faith in an unknown quantity. We will know alot more about him when and if he completes a full nfl season.

Good post Vince Favre and welcome.....all recorded and all discussed before as well regarding Tedford (I've had this discussion endless times).

Actually in my post on the plays....I tackled a portion of the Tedford "Five"

Basically the other 5 qbs you speak of were all QBs that Tedford
eaked the most out of. It's not that the system was bad, but Tedford
maximized the most out of his QBs that the NFL teams couldn't do.
The reason was the play calling and play design that he creates.

There's several levels to his system where the QB goes from beginner to advanced in their QB acumen. The only QBs of his system that went to advanced were Aaron Rodgers and Nate Longshore... The 5 who preceeded them never got past novice(in between beginner and advanced).

Akili Smith and Boller were not good processors of information and Tedford's system allowed large throwing zones that these lesser talented QBs can throw into. Making their reads much easier.

If it's there..throw there..if not...throw it away.

That's why the Cal offense wasn't as good w/Boller in there as opposed to Rodgers.

What you WILL read about regarding Tedford is that he
even says that Aaron IS DIFFERENT.

He didn't have to spoon feed Aaron as he had to do
with Dilfer, Smith, Harrington, Billy Volek, and David Carr.

Sometimes Jeff Tedford had to remind himself that Aaron was
only 19 years old, when he master both the left and right throwing
zones of his offense.


REGARDING COLLEGE COACHES THAT DON'T PRODUCE BIGTIME NFL QBs.

If you're concerned about a college coach's track record for bringing QBs to the NFL...think STEVE SPURRIER.

His track record is MUCH WORSE...

But he doesn't get anywhere near the publicity.

Sage Rosenfels, Danny Wuerfel, etc etc...

ALSO think about some other accomplished big time college QBs as of late.

Alex Smith? Huge bust. Urban Meyer's QB's have done horribly in the NFL as well. But then again only TEDFORD get's the publicity.

Matt Lienart? Got benched and has struggled understanding the NFL
defenses. Think his system at USC was any bettter than CAL's?
USC gets by on getting the best athletes. Not the best system.
CAL beat them w/a better system and lesser players.

Vince Young? Norm Chow(the coach that had the offense for Matt Lienart) actually was fired because he couldn't get Vince Young to understand the intricacies of offense. Vince would just run when he felt like it. That speaks VOLUMES.

The bottom line here is that judging an NFL QB by his college coach
has no merit.

If anything Aaron benefitted more from a pro-style system through Tedford than not.

Again, I bring up Alex Smith.

He came from a college offense where he pretty much had all his receivers run down the field at the same time..and since they were better athletes..they were always open. And if they weren't open...he had running lanes and ran the ball.

That's Urban Meyers's offense. You think that translates well for the NFL?

You see by Alex Smith's performances that he's had a steep learning curve. Aaron's not had to endure that.

And ALSO keep in mind...Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers are both
schooled in the exact same offense under Mike McCarthy.

Alex looked TERRIBLE running it..because he couldn't process fast information fast enough.
Aaron has excelled in it and you guys can see the progress he's made.

That's pretty much the bottom line.

Vince Favre...I'll just give you two quotes from Mike McCarthy taken from this season.

Regarding Aaron Rodgers

"I liken AJ Hawk to Aaron Rodgers...when you guys see them in their comfort zone..you'll all see what they're all about"
- Both of those dudes have reached their comfort zone!

"Aaron's gonna be a FINE Quarterback in the NFL...I just can't give him enough reps" - After the Dallas game.


IT's not that people are HAPPY to see Favre go.
Being happy for Aaron to get his chance and hating Favre is not
a 1 to 1 relationship.

You can support Aaron AND Favre at the same time.

And also..what you see as an unproven commodity...

Through my posts, I'm trying to convey that the unproven
commodity, has been refined, polished, refined, and even
seasoned by that HOF who just gracefully bowed out.

The future is not as uncertain as many of you who don't know
Aaron think it is..

As I said..you guys are really going to enjoy watching him play.
 

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

porky88 said:
Over the course of the season Rodgers should go from "game manager" to one of the better QB's in the NFC possibly. That's IF he lives up the the hype and I definitely believe he's capable of it.

Really my only concern is if he can stay healthy but then again injuries happen to every player, even Brett Favre had quite a few.

I really dont think ARod is being hyped in national media, he's practically the most unknown starting QB in the league cos until the Cowboys game all his play didnt mean anything cos he simply wasnt ready. Hes the best kept secret in the NFL and is gonna be a steal in Fantasy Football because of both his own play and that of his talented team mates. If Derek Anderson can make the probowl then theres no reason ARod cant.

I live in Green Bay so I hear more hype on the Packers than anything else. It's talked about every day. I think the expectations for Rodgers is to win 10 games and that will give the Pack the NFC North IMO.

------------------------

Zombie - I think in Week 2 the Packers were still a one dimensional team. They had the short pass and thrived off of it. The Denver game was the first game I can remember seeing the deep ball brought into play and obviously Ryan Grant had a 100 yard day too.
 

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Something that the Tedford Five article mentions only in passing is that three of those QB's were drafted by teams that were brutally awful--Cincinnati, Detroit, and Houston--and the other two went to teams that were offensively challenged. Their confidence was destroyed, and maybe they weren't that good to begin with. I've always thought Tedford must be a genius to get such good performances out of QB's who could not make it in the pros.

Rodgers, on the other hand, is in a nearly ideal situation: a talented team with good coaches and good fans, and he's had three years to learn the game from one of the best who ever played it. If the pattern is going to be broken, he's the guy to break it.
 
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Cal2GreenBay

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Greg C. said:
Something that the Tedford Five article mentions only in passing is that three of those QB's were drafted by teams that were brutally awful--Cincinnati, Detroit, and Houston--and the other two went to teams that were offensively challenged. Their confidence was destroyed, and maybe they weren't that good to begin with. I've always thought Tedford must be a genius to get such good performances out of QB's who could not make it in the pros.

Rodgers, on the other hand, is in a nearly ideal situation: a talented team with good coaches and good fans, and he's had three years to learn the game from one of the best who ever played it. If the pattern is going to be broken, he's the guy to break it.

Can't say it any better Greg...
 

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Aaron Rogers is going to have some opportunity to prove whether he can indeed by more than a game manager. The key for Aaron is not be something he isn't. Don't go out and try and win every game by yourself. I believe Mike McCarthy will keep him under control.
 

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

------------------------

Zombie - I think in Week 2 the Packers were still a one dimensional team. They had the short pass and thrived off of it. The Denver game was the first game I can remember seeing the deep ball brought into play and obviously Ryan Grant had a 100 yard day too.

The reason I call us elite from Week 2 was everyone knew we were going to pass, and all we did was pass, and there wasn't a dang thing anyone could do about it. Favre was killing opponents. It started in week 2. Week 1, nothing seemed to click right and if it wasn't for our STs, we would have lost that game.

If you look at the Points For totals, they were really good from Week 2 on with only a few bad games.
 

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Vince_Favre said:
I tend not to be as optimistic as some posters that I've seen on the boards. Some actually seem happy that Favre retired and that Rodgers is playing.

I don't think anyone is happy to see Favre gone. He was my favorite player of all-time and probably always will be. I don't think there will be another player like him.

The thing is, we have the #6 D. We have the 2nd best WR set in the NFL. We have a top tier RB. Our OL is good at pass protection but could use improvement at run blocking. But one more year together, our OL will be better in '08 than '07. OLs take awhile to gel.

The only significant change is the QB. Sure, we had the best QB ever. But Rodgers is no slouch. I think the optimism you are seeing is because no matter who is QB'ing this team, we'll be 8-8 or better. We're all sad Favre is gone, but we're hoping Rodgers can work some magic.

I'd like to give the kid a chance before writing him off. He was really good in preseason last year.
 

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

Vince_Favre said:
I tend not to be as optimistic as some posters that I've seen on the boards. Some actually seem happy that Favre retired and that Rodgers is playing.

I don't think anyone is happy to see Favre gone. He was my favorite player of all-time and probably always will be. I don't think there will be another player like him.

The thing is, we have the #6 D. We have the 2nd best WR set in the NFL. We have a top tier RB. Our OL is good at pass protection but could use improvement at run blocking. But one more year together, our OL will be better in '08 than '07. OLs take awhile to gel.

The only significant change is the QB. Sure, we had the best QB ever. But Rodgers is no slouch. I think the optimism you are seeing is because no matter who is QB'ing this team, we'll be 8-8 or better. We're all sad Favre is gone, but we're hoping Rodgers can work some magic.

I'd like to give the kid a chance before writing him off. He was really good in preseason last year.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on having a top tier running Back. Grant has had some good games, but let's see how he does when people are keying on him and trying to make A-Rod win games. I can think of at least ten backs that right now I'd rate higher then Grant:

Want me to list them? (Active Backs)

1. Ladanian Tomlinson - San Diego Chargers
2. Adrian Peterson - Minnesota Vikings
3. Steven Jackson - St. Louis Rams
4. Clinton Portis - Washington Redskins
5. Jamal Lewis - Cleveland Browns
6. Brian Westbrook - Philadelphia Eagles
7. Joseph Addai - Indianapolis Colts
8. Frank Gore - San Francisco 49ers
9. Warrick Dunn - Tampa Bay
10. Fred Taylor - Jacksonville Jaguars

Now could grant in the long run be better then these guys??? Maybe but with the exception of Peterson, Gore, and maybe Jackson, all of them have proven both Longevity and consistent production on the field of play. If Grant can continue to play the way he did in the Play offs (I mean the Seattle game, not the NY Game) then he may earn a spot in the current top 10 but he's not a top ten back. Not yet anyways.


Other than that point I think I agree, if the OLine improves at run blocking and opens lanes then Grant will get his chance to earn a spot in the top ten. Ironic that Reggie Bush didn't make my cut for top Ten, nor did Larry Johnson, or Willie Parker of the Steelers. I wonder who else didn't make the top ten that would fit in the top 15 or 20.
 

tromadz

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

I have been in the Tromadz Lounge. It is the place to be. If your looking for WOW's, CRAP's, and YESSSSSSSSS's, you need look no further.

that made me laugh. You can't even say "damn" in there though, but it allows much worse(maybe im just creative in my cursing).
 

Zombieslayer

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Re: Let's be clear about what a "game managing" quarterback

I can think of at least ten backs that right now I'd rate higher then Grant:

Want me to list them? (Active Backs)

1. Ladanian Tomlinson - San Diego Chargers
2. Adrian Peterson - Minnesota Vikings
3. Steven Jackson - St. Louis Rams
4. Clinton Portis - Washington Redskins
5. Jamal Lewis - Cleveland Browns
6. Brian Westbrook - Philadelphia Eagles
7. Joseph Addai - Indianapolis Colts
8. Frank Gore - San Francisco 49ers
9. Warrick Dunn - Tampa Bay
10. Fred Taylor - Jacksonville Jaguars

Veretax - I'd Gentlemen's bet you that Grant (injuries aside for all parties) beats at least five of those RBs in total yardage this year.
 

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