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Left Tackle: Who will protect the blind side ?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Smokeychedder, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I don't consider a training camp experiment of much consequence. He would have struggled at tackle as well as a rookie i.e. wasn't ready. I think it is a bit presumptous to say they knew what position was his best fit then.

    He also struggled at tackle last year. Pro football Focus (PFF's )cumulative grade of his performance was the lowest among qualifying left tackles in 2011. PFF had him giving up eight sacks(I thought it was 11), another eight quarterback hits and a total of 39 quarterback hurries in 13 starts.

    We'll see if that improves.
  2. bozz_2006
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    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think it will. I don't know if you could come up with a better "baptism by fire" scenario than what Newhouse got last year.
  3. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    This is true, but based on what you saw from Sherrod, do you think he would be a capable guard? To me, he looked lost. Not saying he didn't have problems at tackle, but he looked out of position at guard. Newhouse looked more or less the same to--lost.

    I also don't necessarily get the "Newhouse's best position is probably guard" argument. Especially when you compare his measurables to Bulaga. They are virtually identical.

    Bulaga: 6'5", 314lbs, 33 1/4" arms
    Newhouse: 6'4", 319lbs, 34" arms
  4. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Sherrod was listed as a Tackle coming out of college. T.J. Lang is 6-4" , 318 lbs. and he is a guard. Same size as Newhouse. Don't see the relevancy.

    Just to make it clear, I'm not rooting against Newhouse. I hope he is our LT. We need one!!! I truly hope he has a better and longer career than Clifton.
  5. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    And Newhouse was a tackle in college as well. He may have been listed as a guard by the draft think tanks, but all of his experience is at tackle.

    The comparison is that all of the Packer offensive linemen, save for centers, are 6-4 (or up to 6-6 for Datko). They all have the height to play tackle. Newhouse has longer arms than Bulaga. Either measurables make for a fine tackle.

    No one has presented a reason why Newhouse would be better at guard. What is it? Size? Agility? Just citing the pre-draft write up is meaningless. If those actually meant something, 'Matthews is just an okay outside linebacker who would probably best be served moving to an inside position.'
  6. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    You are the one who listed size not me. I duly pointed out that it isn't size because of Lang who at the same size plays guard.

    Here is what James Campen said about Newhouse back in 2011 in an article on JS Online:

    "OL coach James Campen on OL Marshall Newhouse

    (Is he a guard or a tackle) Ah, he’ll play both.

    (Was versatility a factor) Just the fact he graded out very well, was productive, has good length, good size, a very intelligent football player, does an excellent job picking up pressures, twists, you can see that, it’s pretty evident on film. Very good person, too, as well.

    (What would make you think you could use him at guard) Well, I think he’s 6-3 ½, he has good measurables, very quick. I think with a guy like that he’ll give you some flexibility. He’s very smart. I’m not saying he’s not going to be a tackle, I’m not saying he’s going to be a guard, but I think we’ll look at him as we do all of our linemen where the best fit is.

    (Is his body type conducive to guard) I think if you’re putting him in a box, I would say yeah. But again, you’re going to play your best players and wherever they fit, they fit."

    So there is plenty of evidence he could perform well at guard.

    I would also like you to provide a link to him making the team in 2010 because he failed at guard and only made the team on a tackle basis. Clearly as late as 2011 Campen was unsure of his position...and still might be.
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  7. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO the Packers' emphasis on the versatility of their OL is a little overdone and at times it delays the development of youngsters, but there is a reason for it: Usually 8 OL make the 53-man roster and 7 are active on game day so there are only two reserves available in case of injury. The need for those two players to be versatile is obvious. Still, I think Sherrod was drafted to be an OT since rarely do teams pick interior offensive linemen in the first round of the draft (even more rare for Thompson to do so). His body type seems well suited for outside and not so much for inside play (from the little I've seen him). I think he should have learned the LT spot and practiced there exclusively until it was determined whether or not he had a shot to be active on game day (he was inactive for the first game of last year). I say that because the number one issue going into last season IMO was finding Clifton's replacement at LT.

    Back to the versatility issue: I would prefer they not insist each and every OL be versatile because while they do need some to be, it's OK if Bulaga is "just" a great OT and Sitton "just" a great OG. And if one of the two non-starters on game day is only an OT and the other only an interior OL, I'd be fine with that gamble. All this just my opinion and as always I acknowledge McCarthy and his staff know more about this than I.
  8. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    To date, there is no evidence he could perform well at guard. There is evidence the Campen thinks he could be a guard. Possibly even he thinks his best position is guard, but no evidence that it is.

    As far as the coverage from 2010 training camp, sadly I can't find it. Which is rather annoying to me, I much prefer to cite sources.

    Ignoring the coaches opinion for a moment, why do you think he might make a good guard? Or at least, a better guard than tackle?
  9. 13 Times Champs
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    Neither is there evidence he can perform well at LT at this time. Time will tell. Bulaga for instance was mentioned as a left tackle when they drafted him but I think he is a permanent fixture at RT now.

    Jack mentioned versality above and I think the Packers look for that when they draft OL. However, your LT needs to be the best athlete on the OL and have very good lateral movement. At guard you want strength and initial quickness which Newhouse displays. Campen mentioned that. Now you tell me why you think LT is his best position?

    In any case I don't see him replacing Lang or Sitton at this point. Newhouse landed at LT basically because of a critical need there. I hope like proves he is a fixture there like I think Bulaga is on the other side.
  10. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    So I should qualify my support of Newhouse. I think he is the best option on the roster right now, more or less by default.

    His stat line was pretty poor last year, but the improvement from 2010 -> 2011 was huge. He went from not taking a snap to being the number 3 tackle, to starting most of the year. It wasn't pretty, but it was certainly good enough. I would bet on another jump this year. That may not happen, but it strikes me as likely. Look how bad Bulaga was his rookie year. Not Allen Barbre bad, but he was easily their worst lineman that year in terms of pressure given up.

    Why do I think he's fine at tackle:

    1) Measurables. While not necessarily ideal, he is still solidly in the acceptable range.

    2) Movement. He slides into his pass set effortlessly. He has the feet to survive.

    3) Does great job of sinking his hips in his pass set. This is something I really didn't like about Sherrod coming out and early in camp (he may have since improved.) Sherrod = waist bender = bad. Newhouse = hip sinker = good.

    I see Newhouses biggest failures from last year being mental and technique based. Good defensive ends could set him up and take advantage of his mistakes. Those problems can be corrected with practice, film study, and drills.
  11. 13 Times Champs
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    I think we've both made our case. I notice you have made several comments about Sherrod. Do you think he is a bust?
  12. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Not at all. For one, I'm pretty stingy with the 'bust' tag. Second, he's one year in. Get back to me in 2 or 3 years. I merely think that Sherrod and Newhouse are very similar players. Tackles who have the potential to be good to excellent pass blockers but adequate run blockers.

    I do still worry about Sherrod's hips, but he may have corrected that.
  13. Smokeychedder
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    I say, I say, everyone's a talking about pass blocking. What, I say what about run blocking there boy !!!
  14. mradtke66
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    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Ha, that one's easy. Neither Sherrod or Newhouse are particularly good run blocking, so I'd call it a wash. Though Newhouse did run block better than Clifton. Not particularly surprising, that wasn't Clifton's strong suit, but the super glue on top of duct tape on top of baling wire that was Clifton's legs didn't help his cause.

    With either of them, the run blocking should be improved over what is was with Clifton. I'd love to see rushing efficiency pre- and post-Clifton last year. Pending what Saturday still has left in the tank.
  15. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Ideally they're supposed to be good at both. However, if you look at what the Packers draft, you'll see GB drafts superb PASSBLOCKERS with serviceable runblocking ability. We're a passing team, its a passing league, and we use the passing game to open up a run game. Thus runblocking is only a secondary issue, and its worked so far so stop complaining end enjoy your win column. You want we should be like Jaguars? All run, all loss? Or better yet, have Rodgers run for his life on every down like Randall Cunningham? Don't make me call that henery hawk kid
  16. Murgen
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    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    I'll put my money on Newhouse being the left tackle, Sherrod and then Datko.

    Bulaga has already proven himself at right tackle. He isn't going anywhere.
  17. Smokeychedder
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    Smokeychedder Tailgaiter

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    Well, I never ! Ya just can't teach younens these days. They just don't listen at all. What, I say what's a roster to do. I know, where's that darn dog ?
    images (1).jpg
  18. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Guess it's true, you cant teach an old dog new tricks, and chickens will never learn how to fly.
    [​IMG]
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  19. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I think Sherrod can play guard. :)
  20. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    If we were a run first team I'd care. Since we are a pass 1st team that's what every one is concerned about.
  21. El Guapo
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    We're a run 3rd team with Rodgers' scrambles being the second most dangerous offensive weapon. I think that our O-line could be better at run blocking if it were a real priority for the coaching staff. For all the lip service each year, it's not a priority. Therefore the players just don't get the repetitions needed to be really good at run blocking.
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  22. Smokeychedder
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    I can't get any respect ! I need protection ! Less Filling, know what I mean.
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I do indeed! Pass Protection with lots of Pass Blockers! You've obviously been hit too many times already. I got it! We'll put you on the line then! We've seen you, you're "big and fat!"
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    You couldn't block a drunken cat pilgrim ! Bulaga will switch after the sack count rises!
  25. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    And you, Marion, couldn hear a coyote howl next to your tent. They've stated plain out they aint gonna move him.

    This gag is gettin old

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