Is it just me or ?

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Am I being too ******* the guy, and I wouldn`t say it to him face to face...., but did Ray Lewis look a complete **** with all that crying yesterday ??? He was even crying before the game started.....Jeez !

I DID think the Ravens looked fired up though. It`s going to be an awesome final.

I watched the highlights of the 49ers game too and have to say it just brought it home how poor we actually were last week I`m sorry to say...

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

For somebody who constantly uses the word "humble", he doesn't act very humble.

 

[bozz_2006]

Maybe he's thinking about the guy he killed, the daughter that was left fatherless because of it, lying to police, ratting out his two friends like the snake that he is, and it made him realize that he's a bit¢h who destroys lives and throws his friends under the bus to save his sorry @ss.

 

[bozz_2006]

Maybe you don't like that I dislike him because of his "humble" involvement in that situation, but you seriously disagree with that assessment?

 

[ivo610]

Maybe he's thinking about the guy he killed, the daughter that was left fatherless because of it, lying to police, ratting out his two friends like the snake that he is, and it made him realize that he's a bit¢h who destroys lives and throws his friends under the bus to save his sorry @ss.

You are basing this off of what exactly?
You are condemning him in your eyes for something that he wasnt tried for or convicted of. You seem so sure but the evidence just doesn't exist. The majority of witnesses say he was breaking up a fight, with the 1 other witness, a convicted con artist, saying he was the aggressor.

Ray has not done anything since that night to paint himself anything like the person you accuse him of being. He has been a stand up guy on the field and in the community.

This isn't like Big Ben where the situation has been reported to happen over n over. Do you have outrage towards mark Sanchez for being arrested on a **** charge? James lofton for an accused ****?

At least with Brett Favre you see a pattern of behavior to judge.

 

[bozz_2006]

There was enough evidence for an indictment; not just an arrest, an indictment. He agreed to assume guilt for a lesser crime in exchange for his testimony against two others. He reached out of court settlements with the families of the two murdered men; the men that his two buddies killed apparently, yet Ray is the one paying those families....

You're right, I'm not sure of what he did. But he definitely did something. And it was bad. And he's continually avoided public (and private, for all I know. And the reason I don't know is because he refuses transparency! That's not what a leader does!) accountability for it. And to suggest that lack of prior or continuing related activity is an indicator that he wasn't heavily involved in these two murders holds no water for me. It was heat of the moment. Stuff goes down in the heat of the moment.

I firmly believe there is no limit to the things that each and every one of us is capable of doing, good or bad, when we're reacting and not thinking. Everybody screws up. That doesn't reveal anything about our character. Character is revealed by what we do after the dust clears.

Ray is viewed as this kind of NFL ambassador to strength of will, quality of character, champion of accountability. Fine. But this situation, in my opinion, was the defining moment for whether or not that holds true. Like I said, character is revealed in the difficult situations. This was one. There was a major screwup, and an opportunity for Ray to display his strength of will, quality of character, and commitment to accountability that define his on-field persona. He fell short. So short. I want so badly for him to step up and be the man he lets all his cheerleaders convince us that he is. I just don't see it. A leader is not someone who never screws up. A leader is someone who accepts full accountability when they do, holding themselves and others to that standard.

And for him to be the Standard of Leadership for the NFL, all it would take is HONESTY: "I did this (specifically!!) . I was very wrong. I screwed up. But I take my responsibility as THE role model for leadership very seriously. And in order to be authentic, I want to own up to my mistakes. In order to help teach this behavior, I know I need to model this behavior." I don't think that's ever going to happen, and it's disappointing.

edit: ivo, I have a ton of respect for you, but I doubt you'll change my opinion on this. And I doubt I'll change yours. I'd welcome a response from you, but I'm going to bow out of this discussion now.

 

[longtimefan]

Think we know why this was moved

 

[El Guapo]

The thing that always sticks with me about Ray Lewis, is that he threw away his "allegedly" bloody white suit immediately after the incident, and not just threw it in his trash, but in a way that it was never found again. Lewis did have to settle with the families, but it doesn't take more than heresay to be found guilty in civil court - so he probably had to settle either way, even if innocent.

I don't like how the NFL and media hold Lewis up to be this amazing man. He's a great player and has a stellar track record since the event, but murder of another human being isn't something that I take lightly. He should be just another football player, not an idol.

As for crying on tv, I have no problem with it. The man appears to be driven by faith and if that floats his boat, wonderful. There is nothing wrong with crying, on television or not. Silly male pride is the only thing that makes it wrong.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

The thing that always sticks with me about Ray Lewis, is that he threw away his "allegedly" bloody white suit immediately after the incident, and not just threw it in his trash, but in a way that it was never found again. Lewis did have to settle with the families, but it doesn't take more than heresay to be found guilty in civil court - so he probably had to settle either way, even if innocent.

I don't like how the NFL and media hold Lewis up to be this amazing man. He's a great player and has a stellar track record since the event, but murder of another human being isn't something that I take lightly. He should be just another football player, not an idol.

As for crying on tv, I have no problem with it. The man appears to be driven by faith and if that floats his boat, wonderful. There is nothing wrong with crying, on television or not. Silly male pride is the only thing that makes it wrong.

I have no problem with Male tears, I cried myself when E.T. died...lol, I think, and it is only my opinion, it looked so false or staged.
Charles Woodson admitted to crying after being knocked out of the superbowl with his collarbone injury. He just didn`t make a big deal of it.

 

[ivo610]

The thing that always sticks with me about Ray Lewis, is that he threw away his "allegedly" bloody white suit immediately after the incident, and not just threw it in his trash, but in a way that it was never found again. Lewis did have to settle with the families, but it doesn't take more than heresay to be found guilty in civil court - so he probably had to settle either way, even if innocent.

I don't like how the NFL and media hold Lewis up to be this amazing man. He's a great player and has a stellar track record since the event, but murder of another human being isn't something that I take lightly. He should be just another football player, not an idol.

As for crying on tv, I have no problem with it. The man appears to be driven by faith and if that floats his boat, wonderful. There is nothing wrong with crying, on television or not. Silly male pride is the only thing that makes it wrong.

Civil court is a whole different deal than criminal. I don't blame him for settling out of court bc the lawyer fees could be very costly. Them reaching an out of court settlement has no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

Ray Lewis plead guilty to obstruction of justice for telling people to not saying anything to the cops. I don't think that's something unheard of or unreasonable. The "bloody suit" has a legend of its own, and no one knows where the suit he wore that night is. My guess is he ditched it to protect his friends.

By almost all accounts the other group was the aggressors in the incident, why does everyone assume the men left standing weren't defending themselves?

Too many questions and not enough certainty to place complete judgement on an individual for that night.

 

[ivo610]

There was enough evidence for an indictment; not just an arrest, an indictment. He agreed to assume guilt for a lesser crime in exchange for his testimony against two others. He reached out of court settlements with the families of the two murdered men; the men that his two buddies killed apparently, yet Ray is the one paying those families....

You're right, I'm not sure of what he did. But he definitely did something. And it was bad. And he's continually avoided public (and private, for all I know. And the reason I don't know is because he refuses transparency! That's not what a leader does!) accountability for it. And to suggest that lack of prior or continuing related activity is an indicator that he wasn't heavily involved in these two murders holds no water for me. It was heat of the moment. Stuff goes down in the heat of the moment.

I firmly believe there is no limit to the things that each and every one of us is capable of doing, good or bad, when we're reacting and not thinking. Everybody screws up. That doesn't reveal anything about our character. Character is revealed by what we do after the dust clears.

Ray is viewed as this kind of NFL ambassador to strength of will, quality of character, champion of accountability. Fine. But this situation, in my opinion, was the defining moment for whether or not that holds true. Like I said, character is revealed in the difficult situations. This was one. There was a major screwup, and an opportunity for Ray to display his strength of will, quality of character, and commitment to accountability that define his on-field persona. He fell short. So short. I want so badly for him to step up and be the man he lets all his cheerleaders convince us that he is. I just don't see it. A leader is not someone who never screws up. A leader is someone who accepts full accountability when they do, holding themselves and others to that standard.

And for him to be the Standard of Leadership for the NFL, all it would take is HONESTY: "I did this (specifically!!) . I was very wrong. I screwed up. But I take my responsibility as THE role model for leadership very seriously. And in order to be authentic, I want to own up to my mistakes. In order to help teach this behavior, I know I need to model this behavior." I don't think that's ever going to happen, and it's disappointing.

edit: ivo, I have a ton of respect for you, but I doubt you'll change my opinion on this. And I doubt I'll change yours. I'd welcome a response from you, but I'm going to bow out of this discussion now.

I respect you as well and am sure we can discuss this without that changing.

I am not clear what you are looking for Lewis to do, you say you want him to "own up" to his mistakes, but you said yourself you do not know what happened. He owned up and plead guilty for obstruction of justice. He gave his account of what happened. He paid his due.

No incidents before or after. Then there are the stories of his community service. This is from an espn article

Lewis has dedicated himself to giving back to the Baltimore community and to kids. He does extensive work in the community for the Ravens, some things that are publicized and others that are not. Lewis distributes school supplies to kids before each year. He distributes meals at Thanksgiving and Christmas, and provides toys for kids at Christmas.
Kevin Byrne is the Ravens' vice president of public and community relations and has been with the franchise since 1981, when it was still in Cleveland. He has watched every snap Lewis has played as a pro. He relayed a story that a police officer once told him and Lewis confirmed.
Once while driving the streets of Baltimore en route to the Ravens' team hotel on a Saturday afternoon, Lewis witnessed a drug pusher give a kid a packet. The kid ran to a car, gave the passenger the packet, and then returned to the pusher with money. Lewis got out of his car, and berated the pusher.
"How can you do this to a child?" Lewis asked the guy. "You were a child once? Who corrupted you? This is not the way to go."
Lewis invited the pusher to join him for a weekly workout he led at the Ravens practice facility for police officers. The pusher showed up with a handful of friends and started to turn his life around.

Some say your legacy is defined by your peers. If that is true, Ray has nothing to worry about as he is as respected as any player in nfl history by his peers.