I'd Like to Go On Record and State That.....

[c_mac]

Clay Matthews is a total Bad ***.

That is all.

 

[DILLIGAFF]

Where would this defense be without him, makes TT trading up to get him look like a hero.

Believe it or not Brad Jones was 3rd on the team with tackles with seven, behind Barnett and Woodson. Those are just stats, and stats only tell part of the story.

Both those guys had good games and I think because of that it allowed Capers to run this defense like he wants to.

 

[PackersRS]

Clay Matthews just surpassed Kampman as my third favorite player on the D.

Woodson, for obvious superhuman reasons;

Barnett, mainly because of his personality;

And now CM3, for his awesomeness and future Rookie of The Year award. He has what? 23 fumbled recovered? His awesome.

Kampman, I'm sorry, but I was predicting you would be stellar at OLB... So far, you've been OK. OK won't lead us nowhere...

 

[Green_Bay_Packers]

Such a true statement

 

[DILLIGAFF]

Clay Matthews just surpassed Kampman as my third favorite player on the D.

Woodson, for obvious superhuman reasons;

Barnett, mainly because of his personality;

And now CM3, for his awesomeness and future Rookie of The Year award. He has what? 23 fumbled recovered? His awesome.

Kampman, I'm sorry, but I was predicting you would be stellar at OLB... So far, you've been OK. OK won't lead us nowhere...

So how would you like to see Kampman used the rest of the season?

IMO don't make changes to something thats not broke. A damn near shut out of the Dallas cowboys.

 

[Hauschild]

... makes TT trading up to get him look like a hero.

Until, that is, we realize this is the same GM that blew 1st round picks (Harrell at #16 and Hawk at #5) on:
-Harrell
-Hawk

And, 2nd round picks on:
-D. Colledge
-T. Murphy
-B. Jackson
-B. Brohm
-P. Lee

And, 3rd round picks on:
-Abdul Hodge
-Jason Spitz (who was playing terribly prior to being IR'd)
-Aaron Rouse

Yeah, this pretty much brings the kool-aid drinkers down off the sugar high.

Absolutely TERRIBLE production in the MOST CRUCIAL drafting rounds in FIVE total drafts. It's the reason why we're fighting to play .500 ball with the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years.

 

[SpartaChris]

As much as I hate to do it, I think Kampy needs to sit out another week. Lets see how Jones steps up and we do against SF.

I have a tremendous amount love of respect for Aaron Kampman, but the success of this team is far more important. I want the best person for the job, period.

 

[DILLIGAFF]

As much as I hate to do it, I think Kampy needs to sit out another week. Lets see how Jones steps up and we do against SF.

I have a tremendous amount love of respect for Aaron Kampman, but the success of this team is far more important. I want the best person for the job, period.

Well said.

 

[Hauschild]

Leave it to TT to wait a year too long to deal Kampman. Now, his trade value is diminished severely, and 3-4 teams are now out of the would-be bidding.

 

[DILLIGAFF]

Until, that is, we realize this is the same GM that blew 1st round picks (Harrell at #16 and Hawk at #5) on:
-Harrell
-Hawk

And, 2nd round picks on:
-D. Colledge
-T. Murphy
-B. Jackson
-B. Brohm
-P. Lee

And, 3rd round picks on:
-Abdul Hodge
-Jason Spitz (who was playing terribly prior to being IR'd)
-Aaron Rouse

Yeah, this pretty much brings the kool-aid drinkers down off the sugar high.

Absolutely TERRIBLE production in the MOST CRUCIAL drafting rounds in FIVE total drafts. It's the reason why we're fighting to play .500 ball with the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years.

I won't argue that another GM could do a better job, have a better personality, and make some better choices.

Yet TT has put enough talent on the field to almost shut out a red hot Dallas Cowboys team. For as many of his bad 1st and second round choices, he makes up some ground in the few free agent signings and his late round choices.

Yet with many games to go his serious neglect of the Offense line may be his true down fall.

 

[SpartaChris]

Until, that is, we realize this is the same GM that blew 1st round picks (Harrell at #16 and Hawk at #5) on:
-Harrell
-Hawk

And, 2nd round picks on:
-D. Colledge
-T. Murphy
-B. Jackson
-B. Brohm
-P. Lee

And, 3rd round picks on:
-Abdul Hodge
-Jason Spitz (who was playing terribly prior to being IR'd)
-Aaron Rouse

Yeah, this pretty much brings the kool-aid drinkers down off the sugar high.

Absolutely TERRIBLE production in the MOST CRUCIAL drafting rounds in FIVE total drafts. It's the reason why we're fighting to play .500 ball with the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years.

Well, hello Mr. Hindsight. It must be nice for you to be able to hit your way back machine and be able to nail every single draft pick with 100% efficiency each and every time. Since you're so good at it, why aren't you working in the front office for a pro team? Criticize all you want, but there is no single GM in the history of the NFL that nails every single pick.

And I don't get why people label Hawk as a bust. Sure, he hasn't lived up to a #5 draft pick yet, but he's been consistent. Plus I think he's playing the best football of his career this year. The guy has been solid in the past but I think is becoming great this season.

Since you went out of your way to point out the bad, lets examine the good: Matt Flynn, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, BJ Raji and Clay Matthews just as examples. But of course you'd rather harp on the negatives.

 

[DILLIGAFF]

Leave it to TT to wait a year too long to deal Kampman. Now, his trade value is diminished severely, and 3-4 teams are now out of the would-be bidding.

You bring up a good point, but I wonder how much MM and Dom Capers had in the decision to keep Kampman and convert him to a LB. Its seems to me it was more MM sticking his neck out for keeping Kampman.

 

[PackersRS]

So how would you like to see Kampman used the rest of the season?

IMO don't make changes to something thats not broke. A damn near shut out of the Dallas cowboys.

I would like for him to raise his level and be the hearth of the D once again.

If not, then put him as a 3-4 DE, as a relief to Jenkins and Jolly, and outside in obvious passing situations. Or maybe inside, with him and Jenkins being the "DTs".

 

[PackersRS]

Leave it to TT to wait a year too long to deal Kampman. Now, his trade value is diminished severely, and 3-4 teams are now out of the would-be bidding.

That's bull...

If he had traded Kampman, there would be angry mobs waiting outside for him, and you know it.

He did the only thing he was supposed to do. Too bad it didn't pan out.

And you just cannot put Hawk on the fail category. EVERYBODY was asking for him to be drafted. EVERYBODY thought he would be huge.

 

[Hauschild]

Well, hello Mr. Hindsight. It must be nice for you to be able to hit your way back machine and be able to nail every single draft pick with 100% efficiency each and every time. Since you're so good at it, why aren't you working in the front office for a pro team? Criticize all you want, but there is no single GM in the history of the NFL that nails every single pick.

And I don't get why people label Hawk as a bust. Sure, he hasn't lived up to a #5 draft pick yet, but he's been consistent. Plus I think he's playing the best football of his career this year. The guy has been solid in the past but I think is becoming great this season.

Since you went out of your way to point out the bad, lets examine the good: Matt Flynn, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, BJ Raji and Clay Matthews just as examples. But of course you'd rather harp on the negatives.

Why do people like you find it so difficult to be honest in your assessments? It seems as though you guys take it so personally, instead of realizing that I am a man whose only motive is to see Green Bay return to dominance. And, I think we'd all agree this is takes priority over pride.

When you chastise my analysis it muddies the waters of my point which isn't that TT hasn't drafted some good players, as much as it is TT has drafted TOO MANY average to bad players - more than enough to tank his average overall. This isn't my opinion, this is fact based on the number of his draft picks that are not only playing on Green Bay, but playing well - another often conveniently overlooked fact. Remember that you're talent is as good as your record.

So, it isn't about pride or hindsight or any of that gibberish. It's about waking up and calling the ball in terms of where we stand as an organization and where we are headed, and how we best get there. :shock:

 

[DILLIGAFF]

Well, hello Mr. Hindsight.

Since you went out of your way to point out the bad, lets examine the good: Matt Flynn, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Aaron Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, BJ Raji and Clay Matthews just as examples. But of course you'd rather harp on the negatives.

You could also include Johnny Jolly, Ryan Pickett, Donald LEE, Jermichael Finely, Chillar, Havner, Hall, Kuhn, Hawk, Collins, Will Blackman, BRAD JONES??
Still yet to be seen Quin Johnson and outside hope on Harrell

 

[Hauschild]

That's bull...

That's bull because you don't agree or because it lacks a certain element of truth???

If he had traded Kampman, there would be angry mobs waiting outside for him, and you know it.

That's the price one pays for hedging. You snooze, you may lose.

He did the only thing he was supposed to do. Too bad it didn't pan out.

It must be nice to live in such a world, huh? Bereft of accountability and what not.

And you just cannot put Hawk on the fail category. EVERYBODY was asking for him to be drafted. EVERYBODY thought he would be huge.

Here's the point where I lose the kool-aid'ers big time. It has nothing to do with whether Hawk is good or sucks, but everything to do with the fact Hawk was not #5 talent. He was a "safe bet", but really had no boom characteristics.

Considering most of TT's selections, I love Hawk because at least he plays and plays decently when he does.

When you guys nit-pick my points, it takes away from the greater good of where we all wanna see the Packers ASAP. Don't shoot the messenger, capeesh?

 

[PackersRS]

That's bull because you don't agree or because it lacks a certain element of truth???




That's the price one pays for hedging. You snooze, you may lose.



It must be nice to live in such a world, huh? Bereft of accountability and what not.



Here's the point where I lose the kool-aid'ers big time. It has nothing to do with whether Hawk is good or sucks, but everything to do with the fact Hawk was not #5 talent. He was a "safe bet", but really had no boom characteristics.

Considering most of TT's selections, I love Hawk because at least he plays and plays decently when he does.

When you guys nit-pick my points, it takes away from the greater good of where we all wanna see the Packers ASAP. Don't shoot the messenger, capeesh?

I said that was bull because he didn't have the option to trade Kampman, to which you respond: "It must be nice to live in such a world, huh? Bereft of accountability and what not."

So you're saying he had the option? That there wouldn't be riot if he had traded Kampman, a season after trading Brett Favre? How's that not being accountable? He made the right choice at the time. As he did with Hawk.

That "he had no boom caracteristics" didn't appear to anyone. There were no reports of that. Looking back and saying it was the wrong move is simple. NOBODY said it was the wrong move back then.

I do agree that TT made too many bad picks for his sytem (almost exclusively build through the draft) to work. As I've said before, every Steelers 1st rounder, since 2003, is a starter, and of huge importance.
-----------------
Now, back to topic, of which you have derailed: So it wasn't a great move to trade up for CM3? That was the sentence that you quoted. I said it when it was done, that it was a great move, and now I see it even better.

 

[Hauschild]

I do agree that TT made too many bad picks for his sytem (almost exclusively build through the draft) to work. As I've said before, every Steelers 1st rounder, since 2003, is a starter, and of huge importance.

I'm glad we agree on this because it's really all that matters.

-----------------
Now, back to topic, of which you have derailed: So it wasn't a great move to trade up for CM3? That was the sentence that you quoted. I said it when it was done, that it was a great move, and now I see it even better.

It depends, doesn't it? I mean, at what point does a GM address "needs" if not the draft and not free agency? Green Bay's needed O-line help for 5 years running now with very little action to show for it. Could TT have parlayed one, two or three 2nd round picks in 2008 for a decent O-lineman via the draft or a trade? Are we satisfied enough with having drafted Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm, Pat Lee, BJ Raji and Clay Mat as Rodgers continues to get pummeled week in and week out? What if just ONE of those picks would have been on an O-lineman like a Mike Oher? I'm all for solidifying and building depth, but it has to be done within reason.

I guess based on TT's draft results with O-lineman, probably not. But, maybe I'd feel a whole lot better if some shots were taken. Now, it's gonna be much tougher because the O-lineman TT drafts in the future MUST be day-1 starters - there's now no margin for error.

So, how's all that "hope-n-change" workin' out for ya'll???

 

[PackersRS]

I'm glad we agree on this because it's really all that matters.



It depends, doesn't it? I mean, at what point does a GM address "needs" if not the draft and not free agency? Green Bay's needed O-line help for 5 years running now with very little action to show for it. Could TT have parlayed one, two or three 2nd round picks in 2008 for a decent O-lineman via the draft or a trade? Are we satisfied enough with having drafted Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm, Pat Lee, BJ Raji and Clay Mat as Rodgers continues to get pummeled week in and week out? What if just ONE of those picks would have been on an O-lineman like a Mike Oher? I'm all for solidifying and building depth, but it has to be done within reason.

I guess based on TT's draft results with O-lineman, probably not. But, maybe I'd feel a whole lot better if some shots were taken. Now, it's gonna be much tougher because the O-lineman TT drafts in the future MUST be day-1 starters - there's now no margin for error.

So, how's all that "hope-n-change" workin' out for ya'll???

One thing doesn't anule the other.

The fact that he didn't adress the OL doesn't mean it wasn't a great pick.

We had as much, if not more problems with the pass rush than with the OL. It seems like we have a Stud pass rusher for years to come.

One can question whether Raji was a great choice, instead of an OLineman. But we had also a lot of questions about our DTs, and Raji also seemed like a monster. So far, nothing, but it's a bit early for him. I still think it was the right move.

 

[Jess]

Until, that is, we realize this is the same GM that blew 1st round picks (Harrell at #16 and Hawk at #5) on:
-Harrell
-Hawk

And, 2nd round picks on:
-D. Colledge
-T. Murphy
-B. Jackson
-B. Brohm
-P. Lee

And, 3rd round picks on:
-Abdul Hodge
-Jason Spitz (who was playing terribly prior to being IR'd)
-Aaron Rouse

Yeah, this pretty much brings the kool-aid drinkers down off the sugar high.

Absolutely TERRIBLE production in the MOST CRUCIAL drafting rounds in FIVE total drafts. It's the reason why we're fighting to play .500 ball with the easiest schedule we've had in 10 years.

We weren't talking about his history. We were talking about 1 pick, a pick that's turning out nicely.

Does every thread have to be a downer? Or can we have a thread, just once, where we talk about something positive?

 

[Hauschild]

One can question whether Raji was a great choice, instead of an OLineman. But we had also a lot of questions about our DTs, and Raji also seemed like a monster. So far, nothing, but it's a bit early for him. I still think it was the right move.

Tell that to Aaron Rodgers.

I don't think anyone will argue with a pick like Raji, but it does make for interesting banter.

Deep down inside, I think we all realized that our O-line needed an infusion of talent. We got by in 2007 and 2008 was decent, minus the injury to Tauscher. But the problem I saw was that the lines never seemed to be "set". Mac was continually moving guys around, attempting to cobble together a solid line. I really don't fault Mac for this because a dish is usually as good as its ingredients.

For me, it's the frustration of wasting all these years with such solid offensive skill players like Rodgers and Driver and Jennings. I can't help but wonder what could have been. But, we gots what we gots, I guess.