1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up/a> or Log In

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

I rest my case, or at least provide some key evidence

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by net, Mar 19, 2007.

  1. trippster
    Offline

    trippster Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,405
    Location:
    Kenosha
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    I think that the key to success is keeping your own players, have them become better and NOT lose them to free agency. I think TT is doing that. Most Superbowl teams falter because the players on the team go free agent and get signed elswhere. TT is making it a point to have the contracts in place so that we don't lose our key guys as they experience more success.

    I for one am happy with what little TT has done. I have yet to see a guy in FA that wa signed for what he was worth. I think that the core group we have is a talented, quality, and IMPROVING group. I think the braintrust feels that we simply are looking for second tier players that are not a fit in the scheme they are in (hence no marquee names or numbers) but will fit in our scheme thus raising them to the next level. In my opinion, TT's best asset is his ability to find quality talent that not everyone else sees....poppinga, Jennings...and a few others.

    Numbers from the players previous years do not tell the whole story, nor should the player be judged solely on his numbers. If that were the case, we would be looking for a QB.

    PackZ93 to answer your question, yes. As long as there aren't a ton of injuries, I think we should have a better record to show improvement. I also feel that we will be playing better competition so the wins will be harder to come by. That being said, even a 1 or 2 game improvement will show me something.
  2. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    Agreed that the schedule is going to be more difficult, but hopefully we avoid some 35-0 poundings or other blowouts that we had.

    It shall be an interesting year... we haven't even got to the draft yet and I am personally ready for training camp to begin:)
  3. chibiabos
    Offline

    chibiabos Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Messages:
    398
    Location:
    Trego, WI
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Very good Cheesey! Why so many on this forum think salvation is around the corner by signing Free Agents always puzzles me. What we, as fans, think of a player, (exception Moss LOL), doesn't mean diddly! TT apparently makes judgement calls based on improvement overall and shys away from spending huge sums on players that do not fit the Packer's needs, regardless of what we think those needs may be. I would think he has a better handle on that along with his staff.
  4. OregonPackFan
    Offline

    OregonPackFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    356
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    It is true that Ted Thompson has excellent skills for judging talent, however Jennings was high on the boards of many teams around the league and his talent was mostly known, that's why Thompson selected him so early.
  5. pyledriver80
    Offline

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Yes, and then he selected Cory Rodgers, what a stud. Oh wait, he brought in Woodson and Pickett, unfortunately he also brought in Manual,Boerigter,Little, Thompson, O'Dwyer, and Freeman. Where you get this "TT has an eye for talent" thing is beyond me. He is average at best.

    Trippster how do you expect me to give Ted Thompson credit for going 8-8 after 4-12. It was Ted's team that went 4-12 to begin with. Add to that a rash of injuries from the 4-12 season and did we really improve? We had a cake schedule and stayed healthy. How about I rob you of all your cash and then give you 10.00 back, will that make you happy?

    For all the backpatting that you guys do for Ted he sure does have a crappy record as GM. Not a whole lot better than his brother Matt Millen. I don't care that Ted is sitting on tons of Cap-Space, I don't care that Ted is supposedly approaching FA smartly, I care about winning and I have yet to see Ted put together something anything other than average.

    Don't let me ruin your undying support for the man. Continue to find reasons as to why Ted drops the ball such as "he didn't want to piss off the Raiders" or the "Ted's building from within" stuff. You guys act like there's a friggin manual on how to do it and TT's the only one who has it. Wake up Alice, this ain't Wonderland.
  6. all about da packers
    Offline

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    If I had submitted the piece of trash (the article McGinn wrote) to my professor, he'd have bitch slapped me out of his class.

    Let's take a CRITICAL THINKING approach to this article:


    Interesting... last time I checked, I could have sworn that agents were NOT in charge of the financial cap situations of NFL teams. They've got to "restructure a lot of guys"... well um how about 0 guys? The Packers are currently using around 93 million dollars of cap space out of the allotted 109 million. (This figure INCLUDES Frank Walker's 1.24 million cap charge + Cullen Jenkins average per year 4 million dollar cap charge).

    SOURCE FOR CAP INFO. (Just subtract 21.7 from 109, then add 5.24 for Jenkins + Walker).

    Currently, the Packers are using 86.2 % of the cap space (93.78/109). Already, the Packers are over the minimum 85% spending requirement.



    Last two years, Jamal Lewis has averaged a mere 3.5 YPC. In those 31 games spanning over two years, he has exactly 6 runs of 20+ yards. Clearly not having his best years, nor was he ever that fast of a runner; basically not a great fit for the ZB scheme.

    People were outraged that we signed K-Rob, someone who had a record of DUI charges and alcohol abuse problems. We took a risk with signing K-Rob, no need to take a risk in signing Rhodes who had a DUI arrest very recently. People would be in over arms for having 2 DUI charged players.

    TJ Duckett averaged 3.4 YPC last year. He was the backup to Warrick Dunn, who is 32 years old. Not exactly a spring chicken. If the Falcons thought they were better off without Duckett to back up the aging RB, that doesn't exactly speak glowingly of what the Falcons thought of Duckett, does it?



    He is stating conjecture as fact. NO WHERE DOES HE DISCUSS EVEN HEARING THAT THE PACKERS EVEN MADE AN OFFER TO GRIFFITH. He says that was more than GB was willing to pay, but where is the proof? Is the proof Griffith being a Raider? How do we know it wasn't for other reasons besides money?

    Conjecture that is reported as truth, and is based on factless sources.



    McGinn reports that the Packers has a visit scheduled with Curtis, but he signed with Philly before the visit.

    The Packers were definitely interested in looking at Curtis, but I ask you how they could have possibly got in on the running for Curtis when Curtis never gave them the chance? He signed before they even had the chance to get in the running, can't blame TT for that IMO. Or perhaps you could, but it wouldn't be fair. TT was waiting his turn in line, unfortunately by the time his number got called, he couldn't get in on the action.



    The bold part is once again McGinn's conjecture being reported as fact. NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE TO PROVE HIS OPINION, YET HE PASSES IT OFF AS FACT. There is nothing to suggest anything either way. However, given that Horn's agent was in talks with TT, I think his word is important. He says the Packers would have made a comparable offer. McGinn doesn't give any evidence proving otherwise.



    YET AGAIN, passing off conjecture as fact. How do we know there wasn't a visit scheduled that got canceled? Perhaps the cursory call was for TT to tenatively schedule a visit? Perhaps it was to gage Grant's interests in the Packers, and Grant's agent said his client wasn't interested in the Packers. Kinda hard to fault TT for not doing anything more to get a guy who might not have wanted to come to Green Bay.



    Daniel Graham: By his own admission, he is a better blocker than a catcher (he stated he needs to improve his pass catching). I could have sworn we had a TE named Bubba who was a better blocker than he is a pass catcher.

    Randy McMichael: I really trust porky, because I know he is one who reads around a lot and watches a ton of tape. Plus he has ties to insiders. If he says McMichael has bad hands, it is a cause for concern. Not to mention his whole spousal abuse fiasco.

    Eric Johnson: Injury prone. Better than David Martin, but what use would he be if he was injured?

    Bottom line: TT has a history of targeting needs in the draft. He will target TE fairly early on day 1.


    PLEASE DO NOT TAKE BOB MCGINN'S WORD AS FACT. GOD GAVE YOU A BRAIN, DO TRY TO USE IT WHEN READING AN ARTICLE.
  7. pyledriver80
    Offline

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    This pretty much covers at least 15 of the 300 excuses made for Ted's ineptness including the "This source is stupid" one, which is one of my favorites. The guy will write an article next week stating how Ted did something right and you guys will be singing his praises.

    I know, I know, this guys to old, this guys to slow, this guys overpaid, this guy is not Packer People, This guy is injury prone, this guy beats his wife, this guy doesn't fit the system, TT is building Rome, This source is unreliable, said FA signed elsewhere because of weather, familiar coaches, nightlife or more playing time, Ted didn't want to piss off the Raiders,on and on and on and on and on

    I don't understand why you guys need so many facts when you choose to ignore them anyways. Here's a fact - Ted Thompson is 12-20 in two years! That's a fact and the most important one at that!

    Funny how you guys say we should pass on injury prone guys, yet you pat Ted on the back for Woodson

    Funny how we should pass on guys who have "declining production' yet every other thread is "We Want Moss"

    Funny how Porky is a "reliable source" but Bob McGinn, who gets paid to do it, is not

    And most of all.......


    It's funny how you talk about McGinn staing opinions as fact and then you end your excuse-laden post with "Bottom line: TT has a history of targeting needs in the draft. He will target TE fairly early on day 1"

    And remember, Two wrongs don't make a right, but they make a good excuse.
  8. OregonPackFan
    Offline

    OregonPackFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    356
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    He has an excellent track record in Seattle contributing to a lot of crucial draft picks for their Superbowl season.

    Also, he knew Greg Jennings would fit perfectly in our scheme, as it requires great routerunners.

    Others I might mention are:
    Carlyle Holiday - A street FA that has been showing a lot of promise
    Tyrone Culver - Has also been showing a lot of promise
    Nick Collins
    Brady Poppinga
    Daryn Colledge
    Tony Moll
    Jason Spitz
    Ruvell Martin - Street FA that seems to come along
    Johnny Jolly - We'll see more of this guy this season!
  9. all about da packers
    Offline

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I never said any source of his was stupid. There is a difference between saying that something from an unnamed "source" is conjecture and saying it is bullshit. I PROVE IN MY FIRST POINT THAT MCGINN'S SOURCE SHOULDN'T BE TAKEN ON THEIR WORD BECAUSE IN THE CASE OF THE AGENT SAYING THE PACKERS HAVEN'T SPENT 85% OF THE CAP, THE SOURCE WAS VERY WRONG.

    Funny you seem to ignore last season altogether when making that statement. Improving from 4-12 to 8-8 isn't all that easy a feat. You REFUSE to give TT one more year to prove himself, refusing to defer judgement for one more year regardless of the fact that TT improved from season one to season two.


    You play with fire, eventually you'll get burned. There were injury concerns with Chad Jackson last year coming out, and TT chose Jennings instead. Kinda a smart move, no?


    2005:
    TT needed a QB of the future. Took Rodgers.
    TT needed a FS. Took Collins.
    TT needed yet another S. Took Underwood.
    TT needed a WR as insurance for J-Walk. Took Murphy.
    TT needed a young O-linemen to push competition. Took Whitt.

    2006:
    TT had a need at LB last year. Took Hawk and Hodge.
    TT had a need for O-linemen last year. Took Colledge, Spitz, Moll.
    TT had a need for a #3 QB. Took Ingle Martin.
    TT had a need for a KR/PR. Drafted Cory Rodgers.
    TT had a need for a starting caliber WR. Drafted Greg Jennings.
    TT had a need for young CB / KR,PR. Drafted Will Blackmon.


    History shows TT's draft day picks are inspired by needs. All bolded picks were day 1 picks, and they were at positions of need. I am using history as evidence, not making stuff up at random.
  10. OregonPackFan
    Offline

    OregonPackFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    356
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Chad Jackson wasn't the WR Thompson was looking for either.

    Jackson is a speedy receiver, however he's not a very good routerunner, and in the scheme McCarthy is running you need to be a good routerunner.

    Jennings was that guy.
  11. Lare
    Offline

    Lare Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    705
    Location:
    Packwalking, WI
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I think it's all just a matter of perspective.

    Just a few years ago we fired a guy for only going 8-8. Today, we applaud a guy for getting us back to 8-8.

    A couple of years ago, we criticised a guy for making personnel decisions that only got us to the playoffs ever year. Today, we congratulate a guy for for developing an atmosphere where we can hardly gey any FAs to even come here and visit.

    As long as there's no acountability, you'll never run out of excuses. I know, I've been there. See how easy it is to get into the thought process of the 70s and 80s !?!
  12. cheesey
    Offline

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    NO GM in the NFL hits on ALL of their picks. Calling TT "inept" because he didn't score on every one of his picks is not being fair. And comparing him to Matt Millen is just stupid. Saying he has been terrible here since he got here is crazy talk. He's only been here TWO drafts so far, and in MY opinion has done well. He has done more good in his 2 years then Matt Millen has done his whole tenure in Detroit. The team improved by 4 wins last year, only his second year here. Yes, Cory Rodgers was a bust. But what team DIDN'T have a player that didn't pan out in last years draft? EVERY team did. So to pick one player, and say TT is stupid because that one guy didn't work out isn't fair or correct.
    Lets face it...........some people here HATE TT, and i don't care WHAT he does, they will continue to hate him. Me, i don't love or hate the guy. I just want to be fair and give him the time he DESERVES to either prove himself worthy, or to fall apart, as some on here are obviously hoping he does.
    If the guy proves he's an idiot, as some here want him to do, THEN i will give up on him. I will not throw him to the wolves just because he can't walk on water. He's not a miracle worker. I don't think ANY GM in the NFL could have done better then he did in the last 2 years here.
    Anf Favre DID come back to play some more.................i bet that REALLY had the haters upset!!! They were bargaining on Favre retiring, so that they could blame Ted for that too!
    Sorry it didn't work out for you!
  13. pyledriver80
    Offline

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Lare, you are correct. The key word is accountability. Excuses only delay the inevitable.

    Some Packer fans have lowered thier expectations in order to feel fulfilled. 8-8 to them is damn near a Super Bowl these days. I live in Cleveland Browns land so I know all about it. We will be building for the future for the next 10 years, Next year will always be better, and building from within are the same thing fans of mediocre teams have been saying since I was a boy. Yet, somehow every year ends the same.

    It's hard to swallow but the 70's and 80's appear to be upon us again. You can tell by the overused, worn out excuses that the Die-Hards are so trigger happy to proclaim as soon as someone questions anything. Most GB fans have gone on the defense out of fear of what they already know to be true. It sucks but it is what it is.

    Brett's not going to be around but for another year or two and when he goes GB will be losing the most vital part of thier team. TT seems content to just let history run it's course. There is no desire to make a final run.

    I am prepared for life after Brett and I am prepared to suffer through however many more years of Ted Millen. Without Brett or a GM who can pull off a Brees type signing we are going to be in trouble at the QB position anyways. Let TT play around a few more years balancing his checkbook and treasure hunting for that diamond in the rough. Noone's in a hurry, just give us 8-8 a few times and we will have hope.

    However, when GB wants to become dedicated to winning again let's bring in someone who at least knows how to be in town when FA's visit.

    If only they gave out an award for most cap-space accumulated or most draft picks obtained this team would be a contender. Unfortunately, the games played on the field and our commander in chief does not want to give his army enough ammo to be able to compete.
  14. pyledriver80
    Offline

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    What is wrong with you people? Did I say TT missed on every draft pick? Please quit making up stuff.

    Now, on the contrary, my pointing out of TT's failures were in response to the OBTEEN dozens of ridiculous posts that state TT has an eye for talent.

    You want to point out Jennings, don't forget Cory Rodgers
    You Want to point out Collins, don't forget Hawkins
    You want to point out Woodson, Don't forget Manual
    You want to point out Pickett, don't forget Boerigter


    You guys don't like to look at both sides of things. If TT had such an eye for talent why didn't he spot Colston? You make it sound as if TT is some kind of guru. He is honestly average at best drafting and is terrible in FA. Thus you get a below average score, and thats just what his record indicates. It's really not hard
  15. trippster
    Offline

    trippster Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,405
    Location:
    Kenosha
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Alright Pyle and Lare. So solve the problem geniuses...

    So you fire TT after 2 seasons. Who are you going to hire? Should we fire MM too?

    All I ever hear from you two is how bad everything is. Instead of complaining provide the solutions. Who should we have gotten in the FA since TT sucks at it? After signing a couple of these guys and overpaying them, how do you resign Barnett? After getting a high priced receiver how much will it cost you to make Driver happy again? Do you even have any money left? Did you leave any money for the draft picks or did we trade them all away for FA's? Tell me who we should have gotten, how much it would have taken, and who is going to print all the money?

    Bottom line is this......none of us know diddly about how to actually RUN a football team. Just because you spend hours on madden franchise doesn't mean you will be successful in the real world.

    I am a financial advisor in my profession. I can't tell you how many times I roll over laughing at the idiotic people who sit in front of me and tell me how their brother is a investing guru and told them to buy a particular stock because it has risen each of the last 2 years. or how great and safe CD's are for long term investing. Fact is, if you do it as a profession, all day every day, you are bound to know more than anyone who does it as a hobby.

    To say TT sucks is just plain ignorant. Fact of the matter is that he is in the top 32 of everyone in the world in his position. You don't get there by not knowing. You don't get hired by someone of Harlan's credentials by bs'ing him. TT had a big part in Seattle getting to the superbowl. He has proven he is capable in his job. That isn't my opinion, I am sure that was the word from INSIDE the Seattle offices when Harlan and the hiring committee investigated Thopson. No one around the leauge was surprised at his hiring...many of those who knew him applauded it. Here, he has more responsibilities.

    Giving up and ranting against anyone in his position after such a short time is just nonsense. Yes, it does remind me of a situation in the past. The Chicago Bears and their fans. They wanted Lovie out after his first year. He made strides in his second year....

    If you are going to bitch about what you feel is a problem, then you'd better come to the table with a detailed solution. If you know so much about how bad of a job he is doing then detail how you would do it. But remember, we fans will then respond and call out all your decisions.....
  16. pyledriver80
    Offline

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    This is a futile, last ditch effort Tripp. C'mon now, I don't have to play GM to suggest what the Packers could do. You come on here frequently and make suggestions. Thats what an internet sports forum is about.

    I don't have to be capable of running the damn country but I can sure as hell bitch about the president. I can't play QB in the NFL but I can tell you what a good QB needs to do to succeed. Should I run off and prepare a spreadsheet to prove my point?

    I guess Matt Millen is a genuis too. Should Detroit fans just shut up?

    The Packers have money to play with period. They could have easily signed Griffith and extended Barnett too. They could have brought in a FA running back. It would have upgraded this team. Instead Ted is content to tread water with our future HOF QB in his last years.

    I don't need to show anyone what TT should do because it's simple. TT should win. TT should not be 12-20. Thats failure no matter how many excuses you make for the guy. I don't know what Pro Sport goes by anything else then the Win Column. When TT builds a winning franchise, then and only then, will I compliment him. Until then, he is simply Ted Millen
  17. longtimefan
    Offline

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    15,698
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Ratings:
    +2,544 / 76 / -14
    Packer Fan Since:
    1975
    Look at the roster in his 1st year and tell us how many were guys he brought in...Not to mention the genius that was Sherman was the head coach..Ted gets all the blame, but Mike doesnt..

    Your fast to point out his 1st year record and how he sucked, but yet a 4 game improvment you refuse to give Ted any credit?


    If you think everyone is happy that they arent doing anythign in f/a I think your very wrong..But some people look at it from the inside and out..Not just to say he isnt spending when he has it...

    But why does this shock people? Everyone knew from day 1 he wouldnt spend like crazy...

    You are correct in saying, "I dont have to show anyone what TT should do" ..But if your going to complain about everything he has done, surley you have an idea on what he is suppose to do to "win"

    I can do it for me and I have posted it a few times..

    Here is an updated cap site from a poster on another forum and he has a figure in for rookies along with the Walker signing

    http://www.flex.com/~deeph2o/CapPage.htm


    $16,723,085< that is the figure right now with an est of 3 million for rookies accounted for..

    From all accounts the Moss deal is going to get done..The latest rumor is it will take about a $10 mill cap hit, so that leaves about what 6 million. then sign Nick to an ext, or Williams how much is left??

    My whole theory is the team is trying real hard to get Moss's # down to a very manageable number...Longer then people know the team was working on at least trying to get him here..

    The team wants him and is not spending so they have plenty to give him if needed..If they went and signed a higher priced f/a more then likely wouldnt have the $$ to take on his salary and probably couldnt re-do the deal either..

    Thats not an excuse now is it?? The team wants Moss, Brett wants him, they are making sure they have enough $$ to sign him and hopefully enough to re-do Nicks deal and maybe some others..

    Sounds like a very real possibility, or am I very wrong?
  18. pyledriver80
    Offline

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,391
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    The roster was largely the same as the the roster that MS had the Packers in the Playoffs with. When Ted came in, his moves, and a rash of injuries resulted in that roster going 4-12.

    I don't go along with the line of thinking that 8-8 is any real improvement. Again we were just healthier and played a weaker schedule than the year before.


    I'm not shocked that Ted doesn't spend any cash. I am also not shocked that he is 12-20 over 2 years.

    I suggest thing all the time. Usually that is followed up with some knee-jerk responses in defense of Ted. You know, the too old, too slow, too expensive regurgitated statements


    From all accounts? I don't know where you got this. It's still FAR from a done deal

    AKA pay nothing. This is the same reasons FA's don't come here. TT always trying to get guys at a "reasonable number".

    This is where it gets hypoctitical. Please scan this thread and look at the excuses made for FA's like Jamaal Lewis, Horn, Johnson, etc.

    I see "Declining production" mentioned for those guys yet we should sign Moss? Does he not have declining production? Secondly if we are saving all this money to spend on Moss doesn't that go against the reason you love Ted? When Ted passes on someone it was a good move because he had "declining production" and was too expensive and then in the next sentence bringing in Moss would be a great idea even though he has "declining production" and GB has to save all thier cap space to blow on him.

    It translates into when TT doesn't sign someone we make excuses as to why it was a good move and when TT does do something we ignore our previous excuses and call it a good move. Thats extremely hypocritical.

    Yeah it sounds good, however GB has not inked Moss. Furthermore, that still leaves 4 major holes to be filled and we just blew our wad on a position that wasn't a priority.

    I want Moss, don't get me wrong, but it goes against everyone's reasoning. Furthermore, I would have been happier with Griffith and Henry, or Griffith and McMichael. I will take anything at this point however.
  19. cheesey
    Offline

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    I didn't say YOU said TT missed on every draft pick. But seeing as YOU brought it up..........you are VERY happy to point and pick out Cory Rodgers as a draft blunder, sarcasticly calling him a "stud", but convieniently forget to point out any GOOD moves TT has made. You are guilty of what you are saying WE do, in "failing to look at both sides". Why don't you look at other NFL teams and see that for every "hit" they make, they ALSO have misses. Like i stated, i don't love OR hate TT. I see BOTH sides of the situation, and see that over all the guy has NOT done as poorly as you want to think he is doing. Thats not my opinion, it's fact.
    Had GB gone 8-8 TT's FIRST season, then went 4-12, THEN i would say TT is failing. But he IMPROVED the team, and they won twice as many games his second year. To point out that he is 12-20 and saying that that is proof that he sucks is dumb. He had to work with Sherman's blunders his first year, and is improving the team. Can you NOT see that going from 4-12 to 8-8 is a drastic improvement? To say that this is a return to the 1970's and 80's is laughable. If they go back to 4-12 next seson, then you would have a leg to stand on. Right now, your argument isn't even treading water.
    Just my opinions of course.
  20. longtimefan
    Offline

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    15,698
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Ratings:
    +2,544 / 76 / -14
    Packer Fan Since:
    1975
    Your fast to point out his 1st year record and how he sucked, but yet a 4 game improvement you refuse to give Ted any credit?

    4 wins is not an improvement? Last I checked 8>4

    If you think everyone is happy that they arent doing anything in f/a I think your very wrong..But some people look at it from the inside and out..Not just to say he isnt spending when he has it..

    But why does this shock people? Everyone knew from day 1 he wouldnt spend like crazy...

    Again laying all the blame on Ted for the 1st year while not blaming anything on Sherman...

    From all accounts the Moss deal is going to get done..The latest rumor is it will take about a $10 mill cap hit, so that leaves about what 6 million. then sign Nick to an ext, or Williams how much is left??

    Okay, from all accounts means....The "rumored" reports have been out there for far to long that its going to happen..I even posted a thread back in October where a radio show was reporting the Pack and Oakland were in talks...I also know for a FACT ( little birdie that knows Brett publicly stated it ) that even before it really got all caught up in the media the 2 teams were in serious talks to get it done..
    My whole theory is the team is trying real hard to get Moss's # down to a very manageable number...Longer then people know the team was working on at least trying to get him here..

    This statement has nothing to do with my quote you replied to?
    The team wants him and is not spending so they have plenty to give him if needed..If they went and signed a higher priced f/a more then likely wouldnt have the $$ to take on his salary and probably couldnt re-do the deal either..

    You are right when hypocritical, however the guys that you refer to are not the type of player such as Moss...The REWARD is far much greater with Moss then with a Griffith, a Horn or whom ever. That is the only difference, Moss has a risk like every other f/a out there, but the potential is far greater then anyone else..At least for me that is how I view it, cant say what others feel...


    I never wanted Jamal Lewis here, Joe Horn yeah he would have been nice, but he didnt even get a chance to leave Atlanta, the owner there made sure he didnt leave.

    Thats not an excuse now is it?? The team wants Moss, Brett wants him, they are making sure they have enough $$ to sign him and hopefully enough to re-do Nicks deal and maybe some others..

    Sounds like a very real possibility, or am I very wrong?

    Again the "reasoning" you keep bringing up is Moss's potential compared to the potentials of a Griffith, McMichael and the like...

    One thing people always forget to mention is the coaches in all this...I think coaches also have a big input on what happens...Sure Ted can say I dont want him, or I want him no matter what the coaches say, but to me I think Ted VALUES what the coaches tell him and take those inputs into consideration..
  21. Zero2Cool
    Offline

    Zero2Cool Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,902
    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1989
    I never thought it could happen, but reading this thread somehow destroyed the last operating brain cell I had.



    Anyone who is worth their weight in **** knows this FA class is and was weak from the get go. The prices paid for the "marquee" guys were over priced. Look at Ahman Green. OVERPAID. I love the guy as a player, but that's way too much for him.

    How ignorant can some of us Packer fans truly be? Nit picking about this and that to be negative? Yes, its the offseason, but stop using that as an excuse to be a complete idiot.
  22. warhawk
    Offline

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, Al
    Ratings:
    +38 / 0 / -0
    Pyle wrote:

    ]
    That's because our roster was so weak there wasn't a position we DIDN'T have a weakness at that time unless, of course, you were ignoring all that was being said about the Packers personnel back in '05. You could take every pick and say "Oh, we NEEDED a guy there so that was a pick of necessity." That's bull.

    The Packers needs were ACROSS THE BOARD. If TT was so "need" orientated than why on the very first pick he ever made would he take A. Rodgers?
    Did we have to take a QB there Pyle?

    I am very aware of drafting for needs after spending years watching Sherman do that. He was the worst I ever saw at narrowing a field to one position and one or two players who ultimately SUCKED.

    You mentioned Blackmon taken because of "need" at CB. How ironic that was so since Sherman couldn't pick a freaking CB in the draft to save his ***.

    After umpteen misses in a row it was determined we needed a CB. WOW.

    Is this enough EVIDENCE to prove TT was preceded by a dork?
  23. digsthepack
    Offline

    digsthepack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    The fact of the matter is, there is no use "debating" people who view MS as a success as GM of the Packers; cannot recognize that MS inhereted a talented, but aging team that sowed much of its oats in the weakest division in football (40 percent of games against the North at its worst); who failed to re-stock the cupboard EVERY draft by throwing picks away on reaches; and most glaringly, did his worst as a coach when it mattered most. The classic shrinking violet...much like Daunte Culpepper...big stats, nothing else...chokes under the hot lights of the big moment.

    You like MS, we like TT...leave it at that! But please do not be willingly blind to the state of the team (aged and barren of young talent) that TT inhereted.

    Now, go ahead and rip me a new one because I dare to disagree with the "MS is God" mindset.

    Hey, why is he not a HC in this league right now? Huh? People know his ****, and Favre made that man.
  24. longtimefan
    Offline

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    15,698
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Ratings:
    +2,544 / 76 / -14
    Packer Fan Since:
    1975
    That is what I think it was as well..MS had a team set up to win and win and win...But at the same time they were getting older and older and older..

    Sherman did not do to much to replace those aging players and it was a matter of time for it to come to a crash which was in 2005.

    and that is why " TED" only won 4 games in 2005
  25. warhawk
    Offline

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, Al
    Ratings:
    +38 / 0 / -0
    This all goes back to that group here who insists the STATE of THE PACKERS was "just fine" before TT.

    After all we were winning, right?

    Never mind our record was getting WORSE every year and our playoff experiences were shorter and shorter until there were none. It's cool.

    Never mind by '04 we couldn't beat winning teams and got bounced out of the playoffs immediately. No worries.

    Never mind that the quality of our personnel was taking a hit each year and depth became non-existant. Everything is FINE.

    You see Z where we were HEADING is unimportant to these people. The number at the end of the year was the only thing that was important.

    You see looking at where we were heading defines how far you have to go and that is what they refuse to acknowledge. For those here that don't like the current state of the Packers we were JUST FINE before TT got here.

    It's called having a grip on reality and thank god TT has that and saw what had to be done on a team whose boat was taking on water big time and sinking fast.

    It's called seeing the forest thru the trees. But of course TT ended up cutting a couple of his draft picks so he's an idiot.

Share This Page