I hate TT, Surprised?

LOL how was I proven wrong?.....I never said I didnt throw bullets, LOL I love a good arguement. So of course from time to time I launch some...U dont admire my work b/c u dont see it my way...Pyle im sure would disagree..

Neway enough of this crap

New update: Tony Romo has just been relieved of holding duties..HAHA

Not sure but didnt brett say that he was goin to retire that year b/c he felt the packers were tryin to move ahead into the future and he didnt want to hamper the organization. I could be wrong

Sherman had the talent to win it all....Problem was his coaching got in the way.....He should have won it the yr bretts dad died, but he choked against the eagles.....Year after that the lack of Running game and DB's got him.....You cant go ffrom having a top 5 back in Ahman to having no back and expect to win.....I believe they avg. over 100 yards a game on the ground with ahman the yr. bretts dad died, the year after I dont think they avg. 80...

:jumpflame: PANIC TIME!!!! PANIC TIME!!! THANK GOD NONE OF THESE GENIUSES ARE IN THE PACKER FO!

Well there is a fact missing here before we start to anoint Ted the savior and Sherman the villian.... IMO Ted is stearing us for long term growth, but to blame all the cap problems on Sherman isn't correct either...


Notice the years between 02 and 05, see the imbalance in increase of cap to players salaries.. this is the entire NFL folks... without the new CBA all teams were headed for cap issues. Not just the Packers...

Play fair if you are going to bash... Ted has benefited from a record year in cap increase.

*Edit* couldn't find ave salary for 2006

Here's what I do know.

1) We have $21 MILLION in cap space vs. $2.1 Mil chump change when TT got here.

2) He has NOT been putting his head in the sand when looking at the players contracts and addressing them BEFORE they become a problem like Wahle and Rivera. He's taken care of AHEAD OF TIME the contracts of DD, Harris, Wells, and will get Barnett done before it's over.

3) Speaking of those two who's happier with where we are regarding the "0" line with Spitz, Colledge, and Wells, vs. Wahle, Rivera, and Flanny?

4) Because he keeps the money right he doesn't let guys like Kampman and Jenkins get away maintaining the "core" group of players and assuring their staying here for the next several years.

5) We do not have to live with first round mistake Carroll at CB and we actually have more than ONE LB that can play football.

The Green Bay Packers were not as good of a Football team in '03 as they were in '02, were not as good in '04 as they were in '03, and not as good in '05 as they were in '04.

EVERYTHING heads in one direction or another. Buisnesses, lives, relationships, whatever. Anyone that did not see the Pack heading downhill for years reminds me of the poor SOB that goes home and finds an empty house. Wife, furniture, everything gone.

Clueless.

Kind of like like looking up and seeing your team 4-12 and asking what happened?

It was all around you man. You just weren't watching.

And if ANYONE comes back on me with this "oh, but we made the playoffs" crap may a GAK **** on your computer!

The Packers playoff team of '04 was WORSE than the '06 Giants 8-8 team. At least they put up a damn game.

I would take the '07 Packers roster ALL DAY LONG over '04 especially if I could take a couple of years off Favre.

This team is not tired, old, over the hill, or broke. There are actually a few positions where if a guy gets hurt someone can come in who may have played some football somewhere before and it's highly unlikely we will EVER go into an offseason unable to reconstruct a contract for a player we want to keep.

Hey Mike, are you out there listening to any of this?

These numbers aren't drawn out of a hat without advance notice to PLAN for.

Our cap problems had more to do with ignoring how to manage it and signing contracts with players who would get a BUNCH of money and produce NOTHING.

Sorry, but to say all teams were in cap hell going into '05 is just not so and the contracts signed were relative to the available money which is why we are witnessing the INSANITY in spending now.

This is the very thing those of you that hate TT are screaming about.

He see's the COST of players as being greater than their VALUE because of the AVAILABILITY of money and he refuses to get sucked into it.

Why not? Because he knows that it doesn't matter how much money is available. If players are payed more than they are worth the money WILL get tight.

If there were no ceiling it would be different but because there is a limit he is right.

I am not even a Ted basher and I am getting rolled over, neither side can apparently look at this objectively

For every A.Carroll there is a A. Rodgers
For every J.Johnson there is a M.Manuel
For every H.Nickerson there is a A.Klemm

Go back and read the panic chatter from journalists and fans before the CBA was approved going into the 2006 season, tell me most clubs were cap tight

Sherman's biggest down fall was the draft and more specifically projecting talent into the NFL.

Oh, God......does this **** get old!

Yep and I let myself get into it... shame shame...

I just can't understand the "throw Ted under the bus" mentality.
If it was a WEEK before the season starts, and we were right where we are now, THEN i would be worried. There is plenty of time before then to fix whats wrong.
And i'm not so sure that Morency can't carry the load as a #1 back. He needs to have the chance to show that he can. ALL backs have to get the chance in order to prove themselves. Green was that way. Seattle shunned him because he fumbled alot. We got him, and USED him, and he shined. (Even though he still fumbled more then most backs).
Favre is coming back, the o-line has jelled, we still have DD, and Jennings will be back healthy. A couple of the other WR's looked pretty darn good at the end of the season. The D was doing MUCH better.
The whole team was improving towards the end of the year. Someone here said "We were the best of the turds". I think we WERE! And could have had a chance had we beat out the Giants, who were NOT as strong as GB was at the end.
I see ALOT of reasons to remain positive.
Some see a room full of horse crap, i see a room that probably has a pony in it. So i'm gonna look for the pony!
I really don't think just because Ted hasn't done much (i think he's doing alot, we just don't see the results yet) that that means nothing will be accomplished before the season starts.
Those that want TT gone NOW.
If he SHOWS you that he was working on the team problems (gets guys signed and all) will you come on here and admit that you jumped WAY too early? That you should have been more patient and let the guy do his job?

If next season starts and the deficincies are still not taken care of, I'll come here and admit that you guys were right in attacking so early.

Oh, the instant gratification mindset of the day. Ain't it a joy!

You do it all the time. I like when you go back a year and half and find something that shows nothing. How long do you dig around for those dude?

Anyways, you made my point again. See where I said "We may have 32 7th round picks with Ted in control" Did I say that was bad? Did I insult Ted? Then you chimed in with your trigger-happy response to defend him and went after ME directly.

We have the right to say Ted is to cheap to sign players, or criticize him if we want. Just as you can say Ted will do the "right thing". You want to respond with some knee-jerk reaction as soon as his name comes out of my mouth, whether I insult him or not. Are you guys friggin related to em?

Exactly, finally someone that can look at things objectively. Do I think Sherman was brilliant as a GM? Certainly not but I did respect him for making the moves to TRY to get better instead of being content sitting on the fence.

When electing the highest political office in the land, the question is, "are you better off today than four years ago?"

I don't know. Some ways yes, some ways, no.

There is nothing more I want than to see Ted Thompson and the Packers front office succeed.

But I have severe questions about the singular 'bring them up from below' approach he seems to bring to nearly all personnel questions.

Some work out, like Hawk and Spitz, but many others don't. He likes draft picks, but his most effective personnel moves last year on the defensive side of the ball were Woodson, Pickett and re-signing Kampman.

The problem I have is by the time you put it all together the team changes, then changes again, then again.

New England is far from the dumbest franchise in the NFL, yet they have no fear going after draft picks, and as they proved this year, free agents.
Why? Because their front office knows when you can put it all together, you do so.

Brett Favre is close to the end. Wouldn't you think you would try to put it all together for him?

Why sit on all that cap room when you know that next year the cap is going to be even higher? Are you telling me Daniel Graham is worse than Bubba Franks? Why is Ahman Green starting in Texas and we are starting Texas' castoff?

Here's another one to chew on: Favre might quit after this year. Why not sign David Carr? Why is Rodgers the answer? Etc.

One final note: imagine if Favre had retired, putting Rodgers in full time, and Ahmad Carroll was on the corner last year.

The cap will get used in its entirety this year, just like it did last year.

As for Graham, yeah I wanted him, but we already have one overpaid, underperforming TE. No use paying out the butt for 2 blocking TE's.

Ahman is starting in Houston and we are starting Houston's castoff because the Texans have made some horrendous FO decisions. Who got the better end of the Gado/Morency trade? I'd say we did.

I'd say Rodgers is the answer because he is a first-round QB.

As for your final note, what if Tom Brady retired? Would you call the Pats' GM incompetent?

Great, do you not see the connection. 21 million dollars sitting in your pocket gets you a sub-par football team. 2.1 million gets you Division titles with your "sub-par" team

What kind of trophy do we get for that by the way?

Yeah MS never did that? Actually MS did a few of those players contracts originally.

J-Walk, Harris was unhappy last year, Barnett's not done, Williams? C'mon make legit points and not just type a bunch of junk that is false just to make it look good.

Another bit of hypocricy in this post that I see. I thought it was "good" that we lost Wahle and Rivera? Now you criticize Sherman for not addressing thier contracts? So if I follow you......It was stupid for MS not to address the contracts of so-called "old washed up" guys that the Packers are better without, according to your next double-talking point.

I'm getting dizzy. Didn't you just take a shot at Sherman for not locking Wahle and Rivera up? And to answer your question if you are happier with Spitz, Colledge and Wells over the other 3 you may have to have those Green and Gold glasses surgically removed from your head.

Again, classic. TT keeps the core guys, like "Kampman and Jenkins" get away. You mean those 2 core guys who were drafted by MS? He brought them here to begin with! Also what "CORE" guys did MS lose? Did he lose Javon Walker?

I'm sorry Carroll isn't the star Aaron Rodgers looks to be. We now have 2 capable LB's thanks to drafting number 5. Now if only we had a RB.

Based on what? Your opinion? Not on the standings, you know what is etched in the history books. Only on Packerforum can 8-8 and 4-12 be better than 10-6.

And anyone that see's this mythical bright future with Ted at the helm reminds me of the guy who comes home to the empty house, and decides to shut himself off from the world until he blows his head off 1-2 years later.

And the legend continues. So in late December of 2004 we were 10-6 after our playoff loss to the Vikings. Those same players went home and aged 20 years and lost all thier skills before the beginning of 2005? It couldn't have had anything to do with Ted taking over could it? Oh wait Ted replaced "those crappy Sherman players" with bright stars like Adrien Klemm, Will Whitacker, Earl Little and Raynoch Thompson. Hence we went 4-12.

Yeah, don't use facts. You can have crappy teams and still make the playoffs. Kind of similar to what we ALMOST did this year without winning the Division, or having a winning record. Yet TT, falls short of that already overrated goal and he is doing GREAT!

Me to, in fact I would take the 2012 Packers over any Packer team ever. Saying you would take a future team over a past team is bound to bode well for ya. That team can always be undefeated, until they actually play

You are right. It's not tired, it's not old or over the hill, or broke! Unfortunately it's also not putting up winning seasons, winning divisions, making the playoffs, or an attraction for any FA. But hey we are young and have money!

Yes and you made your case for him quite well

Yet you come in and post on page 4, amazing

I welcome being wrong and will gladly admit it if we win the Big One. However, this is the only expectation I have. If it's not good enough to just be competitive and make the playoffs every year with Sherman than the same goes for Thompson.

Exactly I hope I am wrong.....

LOL! If we win the big one.........now, Sherman had SEVERAL years with many of the Packers top players still in their prime. TT and MM have had 2 rebuilding years so far, and in my view improved the team. So, if they improve again from last year, that wouldn't be enough for you to admit being wrong? I'm not surprised. That way you can hold onto your TT hateing till they DO win the SB. Which i truely hope they do.
I knew you'd find a way to get out of admitting being wrong.
In that case, ONLY if the Packers go 3-13 or worse will i admit being wrong.

What a croc.

So comments like 32 seventh round picks should not be considered derogatory? They are not side-ways, critical, or, to be considered demeaning in any way?

Yeah right.

Stick with the topic you created. You look a lot less foolish being straight up than bringing that crap.

I don't really care that you hate TT or not.

The way I see it you can:

1) Continue to dog TT and every move without acknowledging a single move he makes as being a good one although you will say you do, or,

2) Find another team that does things more the way you like to see them done, or,

3) EDIT BY PORKY

But the thing you CAN NOT DO is come in here and make a comment and try to see if you can get by with it as something other than a slam like we will all than say "gee, he really wasn't being an ******* now was he?"

You jump every thread with a TT sucks crack and then bitch and moan because some here "come to his rescue". There's an old saying if you don't want to get wet stay out of the water.

I will say this. You are consistant.

Damn, Pyle your vacation from PF sure reenergized you! Do you have any thoughts on the draft beside 32 7th round picks.

If this years draft goes anything like last year's, I will be very happy. The 06 draft was a masterpiece by your buddy TT.

To good ole Sherm's credit, he never did have the luxury of TT's 06 draft position. But I still think Sherman drafted more like Ditka than Jimmy Johnson, and I think TT drafts alot like Jimmy Johnson.