I don't understand this "lockout" talk

[Forget Favre]

This talk of there being no NFL football at all next year is still kinda new to me.
I don't get it why that could be.
Whatever differences there are, why wouldn't they be solved by then?
And what are they fighting about this time? Players STILL not getting paid enough?
Could someone either explain this jazz to me or provide me with some good links that explain it all in detail as to what is going on?
Thanx.

 

[98Redbird]

I tend to think that there won't be a lockout next year. They will get it figured out. Too much money lost for both sides if they don't play next year...

But basically from what I understand, it's like a union (NFLPA) and an organization (NFL). The old contract is up and both sides are trying to renegotiate a new one. If a new contract is not reached in time, the players essentially strike and there will be a lockout, no football. I think the main hanging point right now is money... surprise, surprise. Players want more, Teams want to pay them less, because the overall revenue of the teams is beginning to suffer because of the outlandish prices that we are paying these players...

That's what I've gathered so far, but I haven't payed extremely close attention, so I could be way off and welcome someone to set me straight lol!

 

[Incubes12]

I'm kind of confused too. Does anyone know what it means for the players to decertify the union? I'm probably completely wrong and haven't looked into it at all, but I've gathered that it means the players will still play next year in the event of a holdout by the union.

 

[98Redbird]

I'm kind of confused too. Does anyone know what it means for the players to decertify the union? I'm probably completely wrong and haven't looked into it at all, but I've gathered that it means the players will still play next year in the event of a holdout by the union.

From what I read, it puts the players in a position to sue the league for keeping them out of work or something? Makes it less likely that there will be a lockout... Again, "I think."

 

[Jess]

This might help you guys out:
NFL NBA Lockout Explained. Finally! | Bleacher Report

 

[SpartaChris]

Heh, excellent timing for your question, considering this was just released today:

No one is blinking in the NFL bargaining game - latimes.com

 

[GreenBayTheOnlyWay]

because the overall revenue of the teams is beginning to suffer because of the outlandish prices that we are paying these players...

Yes... Well. Listening to a sports radio show who sided with the players, it's a millionaires vs. billionaires scenario. The players are getting paid a lot of money. The owners complain, so the players say, "well, show us your books." The owners all refuse to. If they're losing so much money, they can just show the players that, but they won't. The only team that does show their books, is Green Bay, because we're a publicly owned team.

The owners would be selling teams if they weren't profitable. Billionaires aren't having their bodies smashed 16 plus weeks a year, after months of training and exercising. I'm with the players on this one.

 

[Forget Favre]

Are team owners declaring bankruptcy?
Are players houses being foreclosed? They're cars being repocessed?
With all the wealth that the NFL generates for everyone, why is there anything to cry about?
Seems like everyone is just being greedy and someone is always feeling like they're not getting they're piece of the pie no matter how big that piece is.
I just don't get it.

 

[don_frosto]

I'm confused by this as well. Is this situation similar to the one the NHL had back in 04-05??

.... The only team that does show their books, is Green Bay, because we're a publicly owned team....

What did our books show??

 

[SpartaChris]

I'm not, I'm with the owners. They got a rotten deal last time where they're shelling out almost 60% of revenues to player salaries. When you have players shelling out $52,000 for dinner, it's obvious that players aren't starving.

Anyway, as with most things of this nature, it's a little more complicated than "We want you to take a pay cut or we're locking you out" and "Millionaires vs. Billionaires." Things like revenue sharing, a rookie salary cap, an 18 game schedule and drug testing policy that will disallow situations like the Williams Wall from being able to hide behind state law to avoid suspension are all on the table for discussion.

 

[SpartaChris]

I'm confused by this as well. Is this situation similar to the one the NHL had back in 04-05??



What did our books show??

Our books showed a steady loss in profits over the past several years.

 

[Kitten]

They don't like it when they do this! It happened in hockey, I forget the year and I think it had something to do with an imposed salary cap on the players that almost caused the world to end. I thought I would die of hockey withdrawal. It also has happened several times in baseball and it always boils down to $$. I think if they lockout next year, my world would end again! I hope they get it resolved so everyone is happy!!!

 

[SpartaChris]

I'm kind of confused too. Does anyone know what it means for the players to decertify the union? I'm probably completely wrong and haven't looked into it at all, but I've gathered that it means the players will still play next year in the event of a holdout by the union.

Union decertification means the players are agreeing to dissolve the players union in an effort to prevent the NFL from being able to lock them out. Since each player would essentially become an independent contract, all negotiations would have to be with each player individually rather than with the union. This will allow the NFLPA to sue the league for anti-trust violations and collusion should a lockout occur.

The problem for the NFLPA if they decertify is the league can sue them, claiming that the union has every intent on
reforming and is only using decertification as a negotiation tactic. They have precedent too- The union decertified last time and then re-formed once a deal was hashed out.

 

[JoshuaRHuffman]

A lockout is foolish. Look what happened to MLB. There will be a negative effect on the NFL if they miss a season.

I think something will get done in the last hours, similar to how the Nationals always get their prospects signed in the last hours.

 

[Incubes12]

Yes... Well. Listening to a sports radio show who sided with the players, it's a millionaires vs. billionaires scenario. The players are getting paid a lot of money. The owners complain, so the players say, "well, show us your books." The owners all refuse to. If they're losing so much money, they can just show the players that, but they won't. The only team that does show their books, is Green Bay, because we're a publicly owned team.

The owners would be selling teams if they weren't profitable. Billionaires aren't having their bodies smashed 16 plus weeks a year, after months of training and exercising. I'm with the players on this one.

Haha, why? Because the players aren't getting enough money? For doing something more challenging than most professions out there??? I think the owners have the right to say enough is enough, the same way a company has the right to determine it's employees wages (within reason of course). Naturally, this analogy only holds up when looking at it in that light, the pay scale of the NFL is of course, much larger, changing the scenario a bit. Regardless, I think everyone is making enough money.

 

[GreenBayTheOnlyWay]

I don't think people understand how much talent and ability is in these players. When a play goes down, a penalty is called or a challenge flag is thrown, I rarely can decide with certainty which way is the right call until I see a replay because everything happens so fast. It's incredible how big the lineman are, how fast the receivers are, etc. These are the best of the best.

To be more specific though, here are the numbers from the packers report:

"The Packers posted an operating profit of approximately $9.8 million in the fiscal year that ended March 31, down from $20.1 million the previous year. Taking into account investment losses that were less severe, the team reported net income of approximately $5.2 million, up from $4 million."

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5420864"]Roger Goodell: Green Bay Packers' finances highlight NFL's concern - ESPN[/ame]

Again, if the owners are losing money, why don't they open their books as a bargaining tool?

 

[Incubes12]

I don't think people understand how much talent and ability is in these players. When a play goes down, a penalty is called or a challenge flag is thrown, I rarely can decide with certainty which way is the right call until I see a replay because everything happens so fast. It's incredible how big the lineman are, how fast the receivers are, etc. These are the best of the best.

To be more specific though, here are the numbers from the packers report:

"The Packers posted an operating profit of approximately $9.8 million in the fiscal year that ended March 31, down from $20.1 million the previous year. Taking into account investment losses that were less severe, the team reported net income of approximately $5.2 million, up from $4 million."

Roger Goodell: Green Bay Packers' finances highlight NFL's concern - ESPN

Again, if the owners are losing money, why don't they open their books as a bargaining tool?

That's why they're getting paid more than many doctors, lawyers, and other high end professional jobs. That's also why the best of this group get paid even more, exorbitant amounts. Trust me, the talent is getting compensated. Why they need more is beyond me.

 

[Croak]

I don't think people understand how much talent and ability is in these players. When a play goes down, a penalty is called or a challenge flag is thrown, I rarely can decide with certainty which way is the right call until I see a replay because everything happens so fast. It's incredible how big the lineman are, how fast the receivers are, etc. These are the best of the best.

To be more specific though, here are the numbers from the packers report:

"The Packers posted an operating profit of approximately $9.8 million in the fiscal year that ended March 31, down from $20.1 million the previous year. Taking into account investment losses that were less severe, the team reported net income of approximately $5.2 million, up from $4 million."

Roger Goodell: Green Bay Packers' finances highlight NFL's concern - ESPN

Again, if the owners are losing money, why don't they open their books as a bargaining tool?

And in all honesty a fair portion of the Operating profit that was lost was probably due to the loss of memorabilia associated with a certain QB.

 

[Mko]

The losers here will be the fans. If the players get their way then the owners raise the price of tickets and we pay more. If the owners get their way then the prices stay the same and the owners keep the extra $$ in their pocket, they won't lower the price of tickets.

 

[PackerFan87]

When you have players shelling out $52,000 for dinner, it's obvious that players aren't starving.

Haha ;]
Yup I'm with the owners too. No need to increase players pay grr!

 

[Forget Favre]

The losers here will be the fans. If the players get their way then the owners raise the price of tickets and we pay more. If the owners get their way then the prices stay the same and the owners keep the extra $$ in their pocket, they won't lower the price of tickets.

The high prices of tix and merchandise does not give me any incentive to go to the stadium or to buy a brand new shirt.
As others have said, "Football and TV were made for each other."
So right now I feel like my couch is the best seat to watch a game.
Granted, that there is nothing like a live action football experience, but I'm comfortable being at home where the beer and snacks are also cheaper.
And next time I want a shirt or hat I'll head on over to the local thrift store, (Like I've done before) where I've always seen an awesome wide selection of Packers stuff super cheap. Plus, that money goes into the local economy and a charity instead of the overseas sweatshops.
In a way I am boycotting the NFL by not letting them have any of my money, and I'm OK with that.

 

[aaronqb]

retired

 

[Croak]

The losers here will be the fans. If the players get their way then the owners raise the price of tickets and we pay more. If the owners get their way then the prices stay the same and the owners keep the extra $$ in their pocket, they won't lower the price of tickets.

Truer words were never spoken. In fact the owners may even raise prices even if they get their way. I'm really not in favor of either side. I'm in favor of the fans. The owners make exorbitant amounts of money off of these teams and the players make exorbitant salaries. They are doing this while the common worker in the street isn't getting even a cost of living raise.

My Dad worked 30 years in bridge structural and ornamental ironwork. :moil: That is a very dangerous profession. He would be many stories up in the air putting together iron beams for buildings and bridges. He didn't get 360.000 dollars a year minimum for such a dangerous job. He had to settle for a blue collar income. These players are making money and saying they deserve a lot because its a dangerous profession. Give me a break. The owners are charging hundreds of dollars for people to enjoy their stadium and the entertainment, novelties, etc. Then they are crying poor because they can't build bigger and better barns. C'mon man. They should get down in the streets with the everyday working stiffs and remember what it was like.

If only we could go back to the days when the players actually worked other jobs in the community during the off season. THEY really identified with their fans and the owners couldn't overcharge for seats. Alas, those days are long gone. Sorry for the rant. :rant:

 

[SpartaChris]

Again, if the owners are losing money, why don't they open their books as a bargaining tool?

Because why should they? If your boss starts laying off people, you wouldn't demand they open their books to you and prove they need to lay people off, would you? No, of course not.

 

[SpartaChris]

The losers here will be the fans. If the players get their way then the owners raise the price of tickets and we pay more. If the owners get their way then the prices stay the same and the owners keep the extra $$ in their pocket, they won't lower the price of tickets.

Again, it's not that black and white and Sales and Marketing 101 tells you they don't *need* to lower ticket prices.

Ever heard of supply and demand?

Since the large majority of games in the league are a sold out every week, it's obviously not a problem for most fans to be able to afford the game day experience. If more than half the league were experiencing blackouts due to poor ticket sales, you'd have an argument and I guarantee prices would come down. But since the only places that are seeing blackouts now are the same places that always see blackouts, I'd argue that it's not ticket price keeping people away as much as having a team that doesn't compete and is no fun to watch.