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Here is Ahman's future with the Packers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by kuston, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. kuston
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    kuston Cheesehead

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    From Mike Florio
    profootballtalk.com

    POSTED 9:12 a.m. EDT, July 4, 2005


    ALEXANDER WON'T TOIL FOR TENDER

    With the moratorium on negotiations toward a long-term deal for franchise players set to expire in less than two weeks, Seattle running back Shaun Alexander has a message for the team.

    Bring your checkbook.

    Alexander says he won't play for the one-year, $6.32 million franchise tender, which he has yet to sign.

    And he says that the 'Haks blew their chance long ago to get him on the cheap.

    "I told them three years ago that I love playing here and let's do something now. Let's meet," Alexander said. "It was just me and Mike [Holmgren]. There were no agents involved. I said, 'You know what? My wife's here. My family's here. I want to be here until I retire. It's really funny because back then I would have worked for peanuts.

    "Two Pro Bowls and 3,000 yards and 36 touchdowns later, now it's time to talk? And I'm like, 'Why would you do this?' So now it's just one of those things where I say, 'Let's do what's right.' I'm not trying to be evil or greedy or anything, let's just do what's right."

    The problem, though, is "what's right" and "what's allowed under the CBA" are two different things. After more than a decade of full-blown free agency, teams have figured out that it's smarter and safer to pay the franchise salary on a year-to-year basis to a workhorse running back whose rookie deal has expired than to give the guy an eight-figure bonus and a long-term deal.

    Tailbacks who thrive on 25-plus touches get banged and battered, game after game. The elite runners like Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James and Clinton Portis are only one big hit away from being knocked out for a year, and possibly from returning as "just a guy."

    By paying such players under a string of franchise tenders, the player assumes the risk of a catastrophic injury, and the team doesn't pay much more over the first three years of the arrangement than would have been paid under a long-term deal.

    In Alexander's case, he likely wants a three-year total payout in the neighborhood of $25 million. Factoring the 20 percent annual increase for a player who wears the franchise tag, Alexander's tenders for three years are $6.32 million, $7.584 million, and $9.1008 million, which adds up to just over $23 million.

    For the 'Hawks, then, it's a no-brainer to use the tag year in, year out. If he blows out a knee or has some other serious injury in year one or year two, the team saves millions. Ditto if, for whatever reason, Alexander simply becomes ineffective.

    Seattle already has played this game with left tackle Walter Jones, dropping the "F" bomb on him for three straight seasons before signing Jones to a long-term deal. Although, in Jones' case, his ability to remain healthy and highly effective for three seasons resulted in three years of franchise money followed by a lucrative contract, there's a big difference between tackles and running backs when the clock strikes thirty.

    In Alexander's case, he'll be far less marketable -- even if fully healthy -- in 2008, when he'll turn 31 just before the regular season begins.

    Still, Alexander insists that signing the tender is "out of the question."

    "I honestly believe that they're going to make a great deal for me," Alexander said. "I'm going to end up signing and it's going to be no big deal. [But] I'm not naive to think that you can make a deal like that overnight."

    But it's not as if Alexander has many other options. No one wanted to swing a trade with the 'Hawks for his services, because no one else wants to give him the long-term deal that he desires.

    So there's a good chance that a deal between the 'Hawks and Alexander will not be made overnight.

    And not at all.
  2. Greg C.
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    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    This reminds me of something I've been meaning to post as a separate thread: I hate the franchise tag, and I also hate the transition tag. I think they should both be thrown out in the next collective bargaining agreement.

    I realize these players are making millions, so I don't exactly feel sorry for them. But a system should not punish players for being good. These tags are not really being used to keep star players in the same place, as was the intention. Instead, they are cynically being used to prevent some very good players from signing the same kind of longer-term contracts that lesser players have been able to sign. It's a system that is bound to cause a lot of resentment, and the league needs to do away with it.
  3. kuston
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    kuston Cheesehead

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    If I was a only a "good" player and some team was willing to pay me top5 money, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank. If I was a "top5" player and I couldn't get a long term contract I might be upset. I honestly don't think there are 5 players in the whole league that fit this category though. It's not going to cause alot of resentment league wide. I don't see it going away in the next CBA.
  4. Greg C.
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    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    kuston: The franchise tag has ALREADY caused a lot of resentment around the league. I have yet to hear of any player who is happy when he receives that tag. The reason is that even though it insures that the player will not be badly underpaid, it takes away all of the player's options and prevents him from obtaining any kind of long-term financial security. And security means a lot in a sport where the injury risk is so high. Players like Walter Jones and Sean Alexander should be able to compete for long-term deals on the open market. They've earned that right through their performance on the field.

    I originally thought the franchise tag was a good idea, but I don't like the way it's played out.
  5. kuston
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    kuston Cheesehead

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    Jones and Alexander are on the same team, you only get 1 of them. Then there is Julian Peterson, Edgerrin James, Corey Simon, Donovin Darius, John Abranham, Charles Woodson, & Darren Howard. So I guess there are 8 players in the whole NFL that fit your discription. You really think the Union is going to fight to scrap the franchise tag for these 8 players? Never happen. The union isn't there to represent the stars.
  6. net
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    net Cheesehead

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    This is not dissimilar to what the Milwaukee Bucks are facing with Michael Redd and why it is absolutely imperative some form of 'tag' stay in place. Without the Larry Bird rights thing, Milwaukee could never compete financially with the LA's and New Yorks. Milwaukee can pay more to Redd than Cleveland, who desperately wants him. By giving the small market team the ability to at least compete for TALENT THEY DEVELOPED, via the Bird rights(tags) teams like Milwaukee have a very good shot of retaining their help.
    These joker football players all act like they are going broke tomorrow. Bubba Franks is going to make at LEAST 2 million bucks for this season. Not bad, considering he's never lived up to even Mark Chumura's ability.
    Players like Green and Alexander had also better wake up and smell the coffee. There's an overabundance of good, young running backs coming out of college now. These same guys would have stuck a few years ago, now there's guys on the street capable of playing right now. Running back isn't QB, or even corner. Practice a few handoffs, figure out where the hole is and go. Once in awhile you have to block someone, big deal. Oh, yea, catch the ball and run. Most college backs can do it at the pro level.
    The tags could be merged into one tag. I would put a limit of two years on it. After that, it has to be used on another player and allow him to go to free agency.
    But Bubba would have been gone-oh without the tag, and the Packers would have been s.o.l. in trying to keep Bubba.
  7. Greg C.
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    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    net: With a salary cap, the franchise tag is unnecessary to keep talent in the small markets. Your comments about running back being an easy position to play are puzzling to me. Just like any position, some are a lot better than others, and they should be paid accordingly. But I like your idea of limiting the franchise tag to two years for any one player. I think that's a reasonable compromise. It gives teams and players plenty of time to work out longer-term deals if that's what they really want to do, and the players are not left hanging indefinitely from year to year.
  8. ArizonaPackerFan
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    Like Greg, I originally liked the idea of the tag so teams are able to keep their star players, but now I can understand why the players don't like it if they end up getting less than market value because of it. That doesn't seem fair to them and ends up causing more holdouts and resentment.

    I kind of like what the NBA does which Net mentioned regarding Redd, where the player's current team can entice the player to stay by offering him more money than any other team is allowed to offer the player. The only drawback is that even though it's a way to entice the player to stay, it doesn't gaurantee a player will stay, because he could decide to take less money to play elsewhere.

    I guess there isn't any perfect system yet out there by any league.
  9. MajicMan
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    MajicMan Cheesehead

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    I never really thought Green would return after his contract expires, anyways...

    I figured he'd want big bucks, and the Pack wouldn't want to pay it, seeing that they figured he's on the down side...(that's my guess)

    Therefore, I hope and assume we'll be prepared when the time comes.

    I know he's another fumbler, and it will never happen anyways...

    But I sure would love to slide Henry into Green and Gold. :-?
  10. net
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    net Cheesehead

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    Greg: even with the salary cap, a place like New York can offer more in terms of endorsements, etc(off-field money).

    The cap is only a partial leveler. The tag guarantees Bubba he will be making at LEAST what the top 9 other TE's are making. Not bad, considering he's probably 10th among the group.
  11. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    This item was already posted in the NFL Section of this Forum and for the most part it really is about players all over the League, not just Ahman Green, of which there is barely any real mention.....

    Having said that - Next year, during the Draft - look for TT to focus on bringing in at least two, if not three, new Running Backs - possibly one as a FA type Player. Primary reason is to avoid any more blackmail type situations with 30-ish type players or children with big Egos.... remember Denver a few years back? Poor guy got on the Chunky Soup bandwagon and then got hurt because he was focusing on his Hollywood career and not the game... in two years or so, he was gone totally.... I just don't see Ahman Green giving us that much more mileage when it comes right down to it. We need a fresh RB that can run like Alstott.
  12. Philtration
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    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Absolutely correct. The tag is set up for ownership only and there are no more than a handful of players that can realistically be called a "franchise" player.
  13. PackerTraxx
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    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    I like both tags. The teams have made an investment also and it gives them some protection. The player is still able to negotiate with other teams and if his present employer won't match it he is free to go. The salary cap is the real impotant field leveler though.
  14. kuston
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    kuston Cheesehead

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    IPBprez we already spent 2 weeks on the other site demonstrating on historical data that Ahman's produciton level will be maintained at current level for 3 years atleast, then probably start declining. A 5 year extention would be expected this year. There is no way TT is going to let a probowl RB walk away. There is no way a rookie is going to take any playing time away from Green.

    After thinking about Alexander's situation, I could see Green getting a tag for the next 3 years instead of a contract extention. Is Green top 5? I think so. Top 10? I think most in the NFL would think so. But who would pay him like that? I don't know after seeing Alexander not getting any offers this offseason. The transition tag might be a pay cut for him.
  15. P@ck66
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    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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  16. PackerTraxx
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    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    Compulsion to win is so high amoungst teams that it is, I believe, almost non existent that a free agent is underpaid. It is an infinitely greater chance that a FA will be overpaid. What happens many times is the player is not worth what he, his agent, or we the fans think he is worth.
  17. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I understand where you guys are coming from - but then again, Batman hasn't been the smartest player out there at times... remember the HOme game against the Eagles - he came out with those rubber.. yeah, rubber elbow pads.. and it was raining, remember...? Was he going for a tubin trip down the river into Scottsdale, AZ? So much for the utility belt.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the way he plays, but on the regular grounds of observation - RB's don't usually last more than 4 years ...tops! After that, we see a credible decline which happens rather quickly... or they instantly get injured and HAVE TO BE replaced. OR, LIKE MENTIONED already... they get real greedy and hold out...

    If he wants to take the Brett Favre approach, then fine - but he shouldn't balk either when a rookie RB is chosen and suddenly comes out the gate like a screamin' eagle either and takes over... It's happened before.

    Personally, I think TT already has a plan - and part of that plan is to make sure we get out of the money hole the last four years have dug for us... without a better money plan - there's no options to hang onto premiere players at any time. i.e. - Mike Wahle!

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