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Have the Packers EVER had a stud back?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Bus Cook, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Not a shot at you Oshkosh, you just got me thinking. I mean Green may have been the closest thing to it forever. Green was certainly way above average and an elite RB for his time, but he had the fumblerooshi bug and it always seemed to be a drive killing fumble. It took John Madden to get him to take his fumble assist forearm water wings off. Other than him, you have to go back to Hornung or Brockington. That's quite an impressive feat.
  2. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    Jim Taylor (1958-66)
    A five time Pro Bowler who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1976, Jim Taylor ran the famed Packer power sweep to perfection in the early 60's as he put together five straight 1,000 yard rushing seasons. The NFL MVP in 1962 when he rushed for 1,474 yards and 19 touchdowns, Taylor would go on to log 8,207 yards on the ground for the Packers during his distinguished career, scoring 81 touchdowns along the way. A proficient pass receiver as well, the former LSU star would add another 1,505 yards on 187 catches.

    Paul Hornung (1957-66)
    The first pick overall in the 1957 NFL Draft, Paul Hornung teamed with Jim Taylor to give Green Bay a formidable backfield during the Vince Lombardi era. A bright and versatile player who could run, pass and kick, Hornung would go on to rack 3,711 yards and 50 touchdowns during a Hall of Fame career which saw him pick up an NFL MVP award (1961) and two Pro Bowl appearances (1959-60) while leading the league in scoring three straight seasons (1959-61).

    Tony Canadeo (1941-52)
    Dubbed the "Gray Ghost of Gonzaga" and inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1974, Tony Canadeo started his career for Green Bay as a quarterback and before turning into the team's halfback later on in his career. As versatile a player as they come, Canadeo also enjoyed success as a kick returner and defensive back. The first Packer runner to gain over 1,000 yards in a season (1,052 in 1949), Canadeo would finish his career in Green Bay with 4,197 yards rushing.

    Ahman Green (2000-06, 2009)
    A four time Pro Bowler (2001-04) who holds both the Packers' single season and career rushing records, Ahman Green amassed 8,322 yards rushing for the team while adding 2,726 yards on 350 receptions. Green enjoyed, perhaps, his best season for the team in 2003 when he racked up the 9th best single season total in NFL history with 1,883 yards rushing and scored 20 touchdowns.

    John Brockington (1971-77)
    The NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 1971 when he rushed for 1,105 yards on 216 carries, John Brockington would earn a trip to the Pro Bowl each of his first three seasons in the league. The NFC's leading rusher in both 1971 and 1973, Brockington would finish his career in Green Bay with 5,024 yards rushing.
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  3. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    So like I said, you have to go back to Brockington/Hornung to find anyone other than Green. 40 years. One stud back. I don't find that impressive.
  4. Dan115
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    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    The NFL has put rules into effect to make this a pass happy league. They want teams to throw the ball, and then throw it some more.
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  5. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    Sorry, that was cut and pasted, I didn't have much time to do more research. I knew 3 of them from memory. People tend to forget just how good Ahman green was. He was a double threat.
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  6. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    The green glasses have you blinded man..... how many other teams have had a consistant hall of fame calibur RB year after year, for generations? Those type of guys don't come along often and when they do you have better snatch them up. That is why I hated it when we didn't draft Barry Sanders, he was an all time great, a legend.
    some teams have yet to have a great/legend RB, be thankful we have had some....recent or past. All I want is a guy who can get us 4 yards per carry consistantly when he is asked to do so.
  7. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    We agree that Green has been the ONLY one for 40+ years. That's hardly having "a consistent hall of fame caliber RB year after year for generations". I find it concerning.
  8. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    Not me, look how many teams have the same issue? All we need is AVERAGE TO ABOVE AVERAGE wit ha pass happy team. If we did have a guy like AP we wouldn't be able to afford Arod, CM3, and others. It's basically one or the other now-a-days with players getting such fat paydays.
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  9. Dan115
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    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    Do teams need a stud back to win the super bowl?
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  10. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    Nope.....just someone serviceable.
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  11. JBlood
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    JBlood Cheesehead

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    As Dan 115 says, it's a passing league. Unless the rules change, this won't change. 2 things correlate with winning today: 1. Pass offense and 2. Pass defense. Throw in turnovers and you have the equation for winning it all. BTW, Eddie Lee Ivory averaged the same yds/carry as Taylor (4.4). Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens were no slouches either.
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  12. easyk83
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    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    No, teams like GB NO and INDY proved this. We're seeing less and less truly elite running backs.

    I think the absence of a crack running back from the late 60s up until the early 1990s was rather concerning. But once Holmgren took the reins in 92 not so much. Once we adopted the WCO a franchise back became more of a luxury.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
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  13. 7thFloorRA
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    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    You don't need a stud back. You need a back that can contribute in the passing game. The packers have had a huge problem with getting the backs into the passing game under MM. One of the greatest plays many teams use involves keeping the back in for a moment for protection if needed and then letting him float 7 or so yards down the middle of the field and catching a wide open pass. This is how you counter teams that have everyone back in coverage. Many of the Packers attempts at passing to the running back involve them shooting out to the wing and catching a ball for no gain or not catching it at all. It all seems so forced. Rodgers and the running backs look very uncomfortable playing catch. Their bodies are never in the right position for them to catch the ball in stride. There is also no screen game to speak of and hasn't been for years.

    I don't know why MM does not like to use the skilled running backs in the passing game. He lets Kuhn do it but he nets 3 yards at best. Watch how the bears utilize Forte. He isn't anything special but they get a ton out of him. Their offensive line blows or at least used to and he still would chip and go out for a pass.
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  14. easyk83
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    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    I think you either need an O-line capable of elite pass protection or a stud running back. A freak injury to one first rounder with excellent pass pro potential and another first rounder repeatedly coming up lame has done in our Offense's chances of being a true pass heavy offense.
  15. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Really? You find that concerning? Please list the teams that have had a consistent HOF running back year after year for generations.

    While we are on this subject. Why does it even matter to you? Why do the Packers need a "stud" running back? Let's look at the numbers from our previous championship seasons shall we:

    2010 Leading Rusher: Brandon Jackson 703 yards
    1996 Leading Rusher: Edgar Bennett 899 yards
    1967 Leading Rusher: Jim Grabowski 466 yards
    1966 Leading Rusher: Jim Taylor 705 yards
    1965 Leading Rusher: Jim Taylor 734 yards
    1962 Leading Rusher: Jim Taylor 1,474 yards
    1961 Leading Rusher: Jim Taylor 1,307 yards

    So what does a stud RB have to do with winning championships in the modern era of football for the Packers? Nothing.

    I can list off the number of seasons that we've had 1,000 yard rushers, but we didn't win the championship. Grant was a 1,000 yard rusher for his main 3-year span of 2007-2009. Ahman Green was consistently above 1,000 yards. Dorsey Levens in his two healthy seasons as a starter rushed for over 1,000 yards and Edgar Bennett once in 1995.

    I'm not sure where your line of argument is going and how it relates to the Packers today.

    So let's now talk about the "modern era" of Green Bay Packers football, essentially 1992-today. Over that span of time, the Packers have averaged 1,700 rushing yards per season. Under Aaron Rodger's leadership we've beaten that average. More importantly, our two best seasons of 2010 (championship) and 2011 (15-1) we were slightly under the average at 1,606 and 1,558 yards respectively. If you want to talk scoring production, the Packers average 31 passing TDs and 11 rushing TDs in our modern era (1992-2012). Over the past three seasons we've scored 11 TDs, 12 TDs, and 9 TDs which is right around that average.

    I'm not saying that our running game can't improve, but the fact is that we've done best without having a "stud" running back. More so our rushing statistics as a team have been right around historical averages, but we've had committees of RBs carrying the load more than one guy doing all of the work.

    In 2013, I'd say that we've had a good running attack in two of our three games. We've had back-to-back 100yard RBs and despite not achieving that against SF, we had a 3.3 yard average per attempt. Our record based on our improved rushing attack.....1-2.

    So I ask you, has a "stud" RB this season helped?
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  16. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Let's also look at our recent 1,000 yard "stud" seasons and the ultimate result:

    1995 - Bennett 1,067 yards - Lost to Cowboys in NFC conference playoffs
    1997 - Levens 1,435 yards - Lost to Broncos in Super Bowl
    1999 - Levens 1,034 yards - Didn't Qualify For Playoffs
    2000 - Green 1,175 yards - Didn't Qualify For Playoffs
    2001 - Green 1,387 yards - Lost to Rams in divisional playoffs
    2002 - Green 1,240 yards - Lost to Falcons in wildcard playoffs
    2003 - Green 1,883 yards - Lost to Eagles in divisional playoffs
    2004 - Green 1,163 yards - Lost to Vikings in wildcard playoffs
    2006 - Green 1,059 yards - Didn't Qualify For Playoffs
    2008 - Grant 1,203 yards - Didn't Qualify For Playoffs
    2009 - Grant 1,253 yards - Lost to Cardinals in wildcard playoffs
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  17. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    Wish I could give that post a better rating
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  18. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Here's another list.
    Teams that haven't had more than one stud back in the last 40+ years, which was the point of my post, that have won a superbowl.
    I think the Chicago Staleys fall into that list
  19. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    By your meaning of "stud" back, I take it that mean some sort of super star RB. If that is the case then most teams that win the SB don't have your definition of a "stud" back.

    Pats never had a stud back and are still a dominate force, they have a decent one at best.
    Saints didn't have a stud back when they won
    Giants had bradshaw and won 2 and who considers ahmad bradshaw a stud back?
    Packers won without a stud back, only serviceable.
  20. 12theTruth
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    I'd be just happy to have an offensive line that could get a yard on 3rd or 4th and a coach that calls plays to his strengths. I don't think with Aaron Rodgers we necesarrily need a stud RB and I don't even know how Aaron would co-exist to be honest.
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  21. 12theTruth
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    Gotta love trolls. Makes posting on these forums so special. Speaking of Old??? Hey Dan115. Have anyone else you want the Packers to fire yet? LOL
  22. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    That's not what I meant. Very simple. I find it odd that the Packers really have no (or one if you use Green) history of great RBs for 40+ years. I think you could even make it more broad. I find it odd that <insert team here> have a history of no great <insert position here> for 40+ years. I would expect that teams that don't have outstanding players, no matter what the position, for an extended period of time, would be teams of lesser quality. Rather than getting defensive, one could make a more convincing courterarguement (than postulating that Leven or Bennett were outstanding or studs) that it is remarkable that we have achieved what we have over the last 25 years, without any great RB (again allowing for Green).

    If someone can post with a straight face that Grant, Levens, and Bennett were great, studs or outstanding, speaks to being a fan far more than being objective.
  23. Chicocheese
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    Here's my take on this:

    1) Green may have been the last "stud" we had, but ...

    2) From what I have seen from Lacy and Franklin so far I think one or both of them could be the next Taylor/Hornung type of duo. Lastly...

    3) I would rather have a top notch, amazing QB for 20+ years that can make amazing throws with an adequate RB than a Christian Ponder type of QB with a stud back like Adrian Peterson.
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  24. El Guapo
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    You are missing the big picture here Bus. You obviously didn't like that I posted statistical facts that contradicted your argument. So let's try another way. Often times the teams that win championships are ones that get their worst players to be better than the other team's worst players. Team sports are less about how many studs you have at any position, versus how well they play as a team.

    Barry Sanders was a stud RB. That didn't get the Lions very far. Belichik is successful because he gets nobodies to play like HOFers for a few years. It's great to pine for having an all-time RB, but why do you think it's necessary? It's not. You want someone to "post with a straight face" that past Packer RBs were great/studs/outstanding.... why? What does it matter. Those guys got the job done and it was enough to win a Super Bowl with the rest of the team's effort.
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  25. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    The last NFL rushing champions. Which of these guys won a superbowl the year they where the rushing champion?

    1996Barry Sanders^Detroit Lions1,55316
    1997Barry Sanders^[​IMG][​IMG]Detroit Lions2,05316
    1998Terrell Davis[​IMG][​IMG]Denver Broncos2,00816
    1999Edgerrin James±Indianapolis Colts1,55316
    2000Edgerrin JamesIndianapolis Colts1,70916
    2001Priest HolmesKansas City Chiefs1,55516
    2002Ricky WilliamsMiami Dolphins1,85316
    2003Jamal Lewis[​IMG]Baltimore Ravens2,06616
    2004Curtis Martin^New York Jets1,69716
    2005Shaun Alexander[​IMG][​IMG]Seattle Seahawks1,88016
    2006LaDainian Tomlinson[​IMG][​IMG]San Diego Chargers1,81516
    2007LaDainian TomlinsonSan Diego Chargers1,47416
    2008Adrian Peterson*Minnesota Vikings1,76016
    2009Chris Johnson*[​IMG]Tennessee Titans2,00616
    2010Arian Foster*Houston Texans1,61616
    2011Maurice Jones-Drew*Jacksonville Jaguars1,60616
    2012Adrian Peterson*[​IMG][​IMG]Minnesota Vikings2,097

    16


    Only one. Terrell Davis.

    The game has long ago passed by the rushing teams of yore.

    PS: Brockington was a stud. He didn't last very long though.
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