Greatest of All Time

[Raptorman]

This one is a little out there but I had to check and see if I was crazy or not. I just had a discussion/argument with someone regarding whether or not Russell Wilson has a chance to be the Greatest QB of all time.

I'm just going to leave it at that and get some thoughts.

Well now it depends. On the definition of GOAT. If you mean the most yards passing, TDs' lack of INT. Who knows. If you are talking wins, it might be a different story. So far he has done well in wins. Including the playoffs, his QB record is 28-9. Pretty good.

 

[HyponGrey]

Really? No love for Richard Sherman?
I'm sure that he is the GOAT. Well, according to himself.

He's not even the best player in that secondary, and he's admitted that.

 

[ivo610]

This was discussed in Milwaukee yesterday on Sports Radio. The answer is No. How many QB's in the NFL today would have won a SB with the current make up of Seattles roster?
No question guy IMO:
Rodgers
Manning
Brady
Brees
Romo
Ryan

Probably guys:
Flacco
Ben
Luck
Kaep
Cam

The only big name guys I could see struggling to would be Stafford and Eli because of the mistakes they make.

If memory serves me right I believe milwaukee radio has used topics from this forum frequently for their radio show. Longtime would remember better than I.

 

[Ace]

If memory serves me right I believe milwaukee radio has used topics from this forum frequently for their radio show. Longtime would remember better than I.

Im sure it was WSSP which doesn't surprise me whatsoever. That station is about as bad as it gets

 

[Raptorman]

I said it in another thread, based on his skill-set, I have no idea why anyone would consider him even a top 10 QB to build a team around.

Yup. No skill set. Shall we compare his first two years to someone who you would consider a top 10 QB.

Wilson. Attempts 800 comp. 509 63.6% 6,475 yards 52 TD's 19 INT's 8.1 YPA. Rating. 100.6
QB A. Attempts 1077 comp 691 64.2% 8,472 yards 58 TDs, 20 INT's 7.9 YPA Rating 98.54

These are regular season numbers only. So Wilson does not have a skill set to build a team around yet QB A does. OK.

 

[El Guapo]

...whether or not Russell Wilson has a chance to be the Greatest QB of all time.

To contradict most of the posts, the answer is unequivocally 'yes.' Russell Wilson has a chance to be the GOAT. Will he be? Likely not.

However, it's worth noting what Wilson's dad used to always tell him as a kid, "Russ, why not you?" For any parent, that's good inspirational stuff right there. Why should your kid ever think anything besides 'why not you?' So in regards to this thread, why not Wilson becoming GOAT? He's been impressive so far but the statistics are against him just as they were for Otto Graham, Montana, Brady, Marino, etc. They too might have had dads saying, "Otto, why not you?"

 

[Raptorman]

To contradict most of the posts, the answer is unequivocally 'yes.' Russell Wilson has a chance to be the GOAT. Will he be? Likely not.

However, it's worth noting what Wilson's dad used to always tell him as a kid, "Russ, why not you?" For any parent, that's good inspirational stuff right there. Why should your kid ever think anything besides 'why not you?' So in regards to this thread, why not Wilson becoming GOAT? He's been impressive so far but the statistics are against him just as they were for Otto Graham, Montana, Brady, Marino, etc. They too might have had dads saying, "Otto, why not you?"

And what stats are against him?

 

[Ace]

Yup. No skill set. Shall we compare his first two years to someone who you would consider a top 10 QB.

Wilson. Attempts 800 comp. 509 63.6% 6,475 yards 52 TD's 19 INT's 8.1 YPA. Rating. 100.6
QB A. Attempts 1077 comp 691 64.2% 8,472 yards 58 TDs, 20 INT's 7.9 YPA Rating 98.54

These are regular season numbers only. So Wilson does not have a skill set to build a team around yet QB A does. OK.

So Aaron threw 1 more Int on nearly 300 more attempts then RW in 1st 2 seasons.

Also, RW has played with a D that allowed 14.88 ppg in 1st 2
Aaron D allowed 21.16 ppg in 1st 2.

Are we really gonna sit here and say RW has the skill set of Aaron Rodgers? Come on

 

[Raptorman]

So Aaron threw 1 more Int on nearly 300 more attempts then RW in 1st 2 seasons.

Also, RW has played with a D that allowed 14.88 ppg in 1st 2
Aaron D allowed 21.16 ppg in 1st 2.

Are we really gonna sit here and say RW has the skill set of Aaron Rodgers? Come on

The D has nothing to do with QB numbers. You want to question his skill set, fine, what part of his skill set is off? Can't pass? Completion percentage? TD percentage? Int. Percentage? In what category is his skill set lacking? Because so far his number are proving to be in the top 10 QB numbers. Anyone can say "Gee, he doesn't have the skill set." Really, ok fine what doesn't he do?

 

[Ace]

The D has nothing to do with QB numbers. You want to question his skill set, fine, what part of his skill set is off? Can't pass? Completion percentage? TD percentage? Int. Percentage? In what category is his skill set lacking? Because so far his number are proving to be in the top 10 QB numbers. Anyone can say "Gee, he doesn't have the skill set." Really, ok fine what doesn't he do?[/quote/]

Could RW do what Aaron did in 2011?

68.3% 4643 45 Td 6 int 9.2ypa 122.5 rating... this with his top rusher at 559 yards and 2tds (3 total Td's on season from RB's) and your D giving up 22.5 ppg?

Completely different situations it's ridiculous to compare the 2

 

[Ace]

Excuse the editing mishap..

 

[NOMOFO]

The D has nothing to do with QB numbers. You want to question his skill set, fine, what part of his skill set is off? Can't pass? Completion percentage? TD percentage? Int. Percentage? In what category is his skill set lacking? Because so far his number are proving to be in the top 10 QB numbers. Anyone can say "Gee, he doesn't have the skill set." Really, ok fine what doesn't he do?

"The D has nothing to do with QB numbers." Wrong. It has everything to do with a QB at this level. There is a FRACTION of the pressure to make plays on Wilson than any other QB in the entire NFL since he's been in the league. He's been in the lower half of the NFL in total yardage the past 2 years. They need him to do very little to win and just not make mistakes and he's done just that.

Regardless of what fckwad Aikman wants to suggest.... Wilson is a complete game manager just like his label. If a game needs to be won, there are many others I would rather have taking the snap for me.

Again, I watched this kid at Wisconsin and he is who he is. I figured the love fest would be in full motion on him after the Super Bowl.

Please be honest here Raptorman, how many times have you seen Wilson play?

 

[Royal Pain]

Well, if you compare him to Montana, who some consider the GOAT, they both had (in)famous "Catches" early in their careers.

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[El Guapo]

And what stats are against him?

Stats was probably the wrong word...."odds" was the intent of that statement (the statistics of how many QBs have gone on to be the GOAT)

 

[Raptorman]

Could RW do what Aaron did in 2011?
68.3% 4643 45 Td 6 int 9.2ypa 122.5 rating... this with his top rusher at 559 yards and 2tds (3 total Td's on season from RB's) and your D giving up 22.5 ppg?
Completely different situations it's ridiculous to compare the 2

I don't know. He hasn't been asked to. It's also completely ridiculous to claim Wilson doesn't have the skill set to continue to be successful. You have yet to answer my question.

What skill set is Wilson lacking in?

 

[Ace]

I don't know. He hasn't been asked to. It's also completely ridiculous to claim Wilson doesn't have the skill set to continue to be successful. You have yet to answer my question.

What skill set is Wilson lacking in?

I just told you he doesnt have the skill set to do what Aaron did in 2011. Not many do its not a direct knock on him its a knock on alot of qbs.

Hes a good qb in the perfect system for him and that is a fact.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[AmishMafia]

What skill set is Wilson lacking in?

Tall. He needs to work on his altitudeness skills if he is to be in Rodger's class.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don´t think Russell Wilson will be the GOAT, but his first two seasons have been pretty impressive and there´s no reason for me to belive he won´t be able to improve. While those of you saying he´s not a top 10 QB in the league don´t come up with any facts, only saying he doesn´t have the skill sets or you haven´t seen him play, here are some facts about Wilson´s first two years in the NFL compared to other QBs during their first two years:

Completion percentage: 63.63% - 4th in NFL history
Passing Yards: 6,475 - 11th in NFL history
TD passes: 52 - tied for 2nd in NFL history
Passer rating: 100.6 - 5th in NFL history
Wins: 24 - 1st in NFL history

That looks pretty good to me. Furthermore it seems like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees are commonly considered elite QBs in the NFL. Let´s take a look at their first seasons compared to Wilson (I´m not including Rodgers in this list as he sat on the bench for three years before starting):

Manning threw for 52 TDs during his first seasons, same as Wilson, but had 43 INTs compared to 19 by Wilson. In addition the Colts went 16-16. During his first six seasons in the league Manning threw for more than 30 TDs only once (33 in 2000).

Tom Brady never threw for more than 28 TDs during his first six seasons in the NFL, never posting a passer rating of 92.6 during that time. Brady´s numbers during his first Super Bowl were 16-27 for 145 yards and 1 TD.

Drew Brees also never threw for more than 28 TDs during his first six seasons and the Chargers let him walk away after four seasons as their starter.

So once again, while I don´t suggest Wilson will become the GOAT, he had a pretty good first two seasons in the league and there´s no reason he won´t be able to improve.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

^ yeah.... and none of those other guys you listed walked right onto a team with a killer defense either. Wilson does not really have to do much, in a sense. Their defense was the top scoring defense, they had a DAMN good special teams as well. Wilson is ok IMO for a young guy, but he is lacking in areas that other "great" QB's are not. Wilson is not good at tossing the long ball, he is a **** dunk guy for the most part. When asked to be put into the hurry up offense, he basically blows it out his ***, see the cardinals game. I'm not saying he isnt ok, but for some retards to start a GOAT discussions and incluse wilson is just a joke. There are EASILY dozens, if not more, ahead of him in GOAT rankings..... and if you want to throw in the 1st two years to back up a discussion, that is basically worthless, as he has only been around two years and has cherry picked stats basically compared to guys that have been around for 5-6-7-8-9+ years. Lets revisit this conversation in 5 years when he is a salty QB........ bet he wont even be in the top 25 GOAT. This thread is/was a joke.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

I am willing to bet that if Aaron Rodgers and russell wilson were both free agents right now, rodgers phone would ring off the hook from all NFL teams before wilson's phone would even ring.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Wilson is not good at tossing the long ball, he is a **** dunk guy for the most part.

Wilson has the third most completion of 20+ yards over the last two season with 55, only Peyton and Brees have more than that.

and if you want to throw in the 1st two years to back up a discussion, that is basically worthless, as he has only been around two years and has cherry picked stats basically compared to guys that have been around for 5-6-7-8-9+ years. Lets revisit this conversation in 5 years when he is a salty QB........ bet he wont even be in the top 25 GOAT. This thread is/was a joke.

Well, Wilson has been in the league for only two years, so I think it´s fair to compare his first two years to some of the all-time greats. We´ll see where he´s going from here.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Wilson has the third most completion of 20+ yards over the last two season with 55, only Peyton and Brees have more than that.



Well, Wilson has been in the league for only two years, so I think it´s fair to compare his first two years to some of the all-time greats. We´ll see where he´s going from here.

20+ is a 5 yard **** pass with a run after catch, skewed stats for your purpose my friend. His long ball game sucks, plain and simple.

Ok so, by your theory then: what about QB's that looked good for "their first 2" years then fell off? Are they too included in GOAT? LOL....
What about QB's that didn't do much in their first to years, then took off and did much better.... guess they can't be included because they didnt do much for their first two years? this is a joke...lol

 

[NOMOFO]

I don't know. He hasn't been asked to. It's also completely ridiculous to claim Wilson doesn't have the skill set to continue to be successful. You have yet to answer my question.

What skill set is Wilson lacking in?

He's "lacking" in pretty much everything! He has impressively average skill sets across the board.

You can argue as much as you want... but few people that have watched with their own eyes, this guy play his entire college and pro career, would suggest he's anything close to what some are suggesting here. Can he be "successful"? Sure... I suppose what is "successful" can be debated, but I would bet he'll be "in the NFL" for a long time. Do I think he's even close to a QB that can carry his team? HE## NO. He lacks the skills to ever be that guy and that's just a fact.

 

[Ace]

This was never intended to be a bash Russel Wilson topic. Even though I'm from Wisconsin, I don't claim Russel Wilson as my own because he had a cup of coffee with the Badgers, as alot of people around here do, but I don't hate the guy either. As I've said before I think he is a very good player but is in a spot where all he has to do is not screw it up which he has done.

The stats might be there after his 1st 2 seasons but the team he has around him HAS to be factored in to that. He has the best defense in the league and a top 5 RB to fall back on. DEN, NE, NO, GB, DAL etc. all don't have both of those luxuries. He has had a great start to his NFL career but does anybody really think he could have put up those same numbers on the Jags this year?

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

You could take Brady freakin Quinn and put him on the seaCawks and they would still be ok. Give a QB like rodgers that defense and their O-line...... he would break records like never before. He would make their WR corps looks like the best of the best.

I watched wilson play for NC State, he really was not that great then. He really is not that great now. he is a game manager, plain and simple.