Free Agents - Pick 7 Players

[Sunshinepacker]

The thing is he likely wouldn't squat on the money. He's got Cobb, Nelson and Bulaga coming up to FA next year. Considering age I see Cobb as a must sign with Nelson and Bulaga about equal to Shields value. This depends a lot on our next draft, as well as Tramon's contract future; but if Rosenhaus is asking for top 5 CB money, than by all means roll that cap over and start working on Cobb's deal.

Williams comes off the books in 2015, when any extension for Cobb/Nelson will hit and also remember that the cap should start to increase again in 2015; agents, players and GMs know this so you might start to see pay begin to rise again. I seriously doubt Shields and his agent actually EXPECT top-5 CB money, but it's a negotiation so you start out high. Bear in mind that some altruistic sould didn't leak the info on Shields' supposed demands just to be nice, the move was most likely a calculated leak to scare away other teams that might be turned off by that demand and maybe to force Shields to listen to media and fans tell him he's not worth that much.

Also, slightly different subject but I think I would actully prefer to see the Packers re-sign Nelson over Cobb if it came down to it. Obviously I hope that doesn't happen but I think it's a distinct possibility. Tough to justify spending as much as those two will cost when you're already paying a HUGE amount of money to a QB that can make many receivers look good. As for the Nelson over Cobb decision, I really like Cobb but I just think Nelson is a better receiver capable of doing some things that Cobb just can't (mainly due to the size difference).

 

[rodell330]

In no particular order: Sherman, Browner, Revis, Peterson, Haden, Talib, and Verner.

Those are off the top of my head without looking at advanced stats. But, I think these would be the consensus if you looked it up. Shields is good, but he's not a shutdown guy like these guys are.

You have both Seahaaks corners on there i see. Pretty good list, altho i would replace Browner with Shields. Browner is bigger an more physical but shields has elite speed and nice ball skills.

 

[Ace]

Wait? so you would just let Shields walk? if he ask for top 5 cb money? i think Shields is a top 5 corner and i'm prepared to see Tramon go next year vs Shields this year..especially since according to most folks Hyde nor Hayward can play on the outside and House can't play zone or tackle imo.

Look, I like Sam, I think he is a nice player, but top 5 in the NFL... come on.

 

[TJV]

I don't know if Shields is in the top 5 CBs in the league or not and I really don't care. But a draft and develop team has to retain the players who have developed into the top 5, top 10, etc. at their positions more than teams willing to be players in UFA. Shields is their best cover DB. The D has obvious holes, creating another big one on a unit that needs significant improvement makes no sense to me. That Williams deal is up after next season makes signing Shields even more important. Of course I don’t mean to sign him to the biggest CB contract in the league, but unless he and his agent are ridiculous, he should be signed IMO.

BTW, on the Sidelines show someone (can’t remember which sports writer it was) said he’d hesitate to sign Shields because he would be afraid of how huge money may change Shields. That’s a legit concern but I’d take that gamble.

 

[Ace]

I don't know if Shields is in the top 5 CBs in the league or not and I really don't care. But a draft and develop team has to retain the players who have developed into the top 5, top 10, etc. at their positions more than teams willing to be players in UFA. Shields is their best cover DB. The D has obvious holes, creating another big one on a unit that needs significant improvement makes no sense to me. That Williams deal is up after next season makes signing Shields even more important. Of course I don’t mean to sign him to the biggest CB contract in the league, but unless he and his agent are ridiculous, he should be signed IMO.

BTW, on the Sidelines show someone (can’t remember which sports writer it was) said he’d hesitate to sign Shields because he would be afraid of how huge money may change Shields. That’s a legit concern but I’d take that gamble.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of when I think of comitting big money to him.

 

[yooperpackfan]

This is exactly what I'm afraid of when I think of comitting big money to him.

We gotta gamble somewhere besides the draft.
The Packers have developed this guy, so once we develop em we just let em walk?
That's no way to win championships.

 

[ivo610]

I dont think he is a top 10 corner in the league. But I think he could be.

 

[ivo610]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...rick-peterson-joe-haden-nfls-best-cornerbacks

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

I can't believe anybody in their right mind would pass up signing Sam Shields. Whitt sees him up close every time he's on the field, in practice.... If he says he's a top 10 corner, we pay the guy. We brought him up from college receiver to one of the better corners in the league. It would be a stab in the heart for me to see him in a different jersey. RESIGN SHIELDS. And for Finley, I think he's dragging people along. It's not too hard to tell if you actually watch that recent interview. I see Finley coming back, but I don't think he'll get paid what he wants. His mentality and skill set has a lot to do with his physical approach after the catch, running guys over, knocking smaller defenders around. I think, either, he'll be scared to continue that approach and he'll be an average tight end, or he'll get hurt again (not to wish that on anybody) Anyway, keep looking at young draft prospects because that's our best bet at Tight End with TT running the show. (Another reason why shields WILL be back, TT)


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[Ace]

I can't believe anybody in their right mind would pass up signing Sam Shields. Whitt sees him up close every time he's on the field, in practice.... If he says he's a top 10 corner, we pay the guy. We brought him up from college receiver to one of the better corners in the league. It would be a stab in the heart for me to see him in a different jersey. RESIGN SHIELDS. And for Finley, I think he's dragging people along. It's not too hard to tell if you actually watch that recent interview. I see Finley coming back, but I don't think he'll get paid what he wants. His mentality and skill set has a lot to do with his physical approach after the catch, running guys over, knocking smaller defenders around. I think, either, he'll be scared to continue that approach and he'll be an average tight end, or he'll get hurt again (not to wish that on anybody) Anyway, keep looking at young draft prospects because that's our best bet at Tight End with TT running the show. (Another reason why shields WILL be back, TT)


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Would you rather resign Shields or use the money to sign 2 free agents?

Id rather sign 2 free agents

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[Just|Me]

Look, I like Sam, I think he is a nice player, but top 5 in the NFL... come on.

he may not be in the top 5, BUT he has the potential to get there. So in case we negotiate a 4 or 5 year deal we need to keep in mind there is still plenty of upside.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Would you rather resign Shields or use the money to sign 2 free agents?

Id rather sign 2 free agents

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Problem with letting Shields go is that you lose leverage for renegotiating Williams' contract and one of those two free agents may need to be a corner since we don't know how well Hayward will play in a starting role and our corners behind Williams/Shields/Hayward are hit-and-miss at best.

 

[Ace]

Problem with letting Shields go is that you lose leverage for renegotiating Williams' contract and one of those two free agents may need to be a corner since we don't know how well Hayward will play in a starting role and our corners behind Williams/Shields/Hayward are hit-and-miss at best.

How do you lose leverage? You let Sam walk and go to Tramon and tell him hes the guy and that you want him around for the forseeable future. Short term pay cut for long term financial security

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How do you lose leverage? You let Sam walk and go to Tramon and tell him hes the guy and that you want him around for the forseeable future. Short term pay cut for long term financial security

If the Packers let Shields walk in free agency they won't be able to cut Tramon and because of it lose leverage if they want to restructure his contract.

BTW Williams wouldn't get more guaranteed money in a restructured contract than he's due for in 2014 under the current one.

 

[Ace]

I thought it would be fun to do some GM work and attempt to figure out who we could resign and still leave money for a FA or 2. I took these numbers from overthecap.com and I think their projection for our available cap space ($29,181,378) is a tad high so adjust accordingly. Now, I'm not exactly sure how these contract structures work so this might not be entirely accurate either but I just though it would be fun. For Sam, EDS, and Pickett I tried to find players with comparable stats and structured their contracts to what those players contacts looked like. This exercise has us resigning Shields, EDS, Pickett, Finley and Flynn while tendering Banjo and Lattimore.

For Shields I used Ladarius Webb's deal of 6 yrs-50M with a 10M signing bonus. If we give Sam an identical deal to this we are left with $26,871,378.
For EDS I used Scott Wells deal of 4yrs-24M with a 4M signing bonus. Leaves us with $23,791,378
For Pickett I used Paul Soliai's deal of 2yrs-12M with 3.25M signing bonus. Leaves us with $20,136,378
I resigned Finley at 1yr-2.75M with 500K each in Roster and Workout bonuses. Leaves us with $17,331,378.
After Banjo received his Exclusive rights deal, and Lattimore is tendered we are at $16,001,378.
I also resigned Flynn at 2 yrs 1.5M with 500k guaranteed over the 2 years. Leaves us at $15,435,590.

I also then cut Bush, Tolzien, and Brad Jones which brings us back up to $18,431,378.

I wanted to work in Neal and a restructure of Tramon but like I said I wasnt sure how exactly to structure those deals so I didn't. I also wanted to resign Quarless but with resigning Finley, I thought otherwise.

This leaves plenty of money left over to sign a free agent or two (noone top end but contributing players) as well as take care of the draft picks.

Thoughts?

 

[FrankRizzo]

I thought it would be fun to do some GM work and attempt to figure out who we could resign and still leave money for a FA or 2. I took these numbers from overthecap.com and I think their projection for our available cap space ($29,181,378) is a tad high so adjust accordingly. Now, I'm not exactly sure how these contract structures work so this might not be entirely accurate either but I just though it would be fun. For Sam, EDS, and Pickett I tried to find players with comparable stats and structured their contracts to what those players contacts looked like. This exercise has us resigning Shields, EDS, Pickett, Finley and Flynn while tendering Banjo and Lattimore.

For Shields I used Ladarius Webb's deal of 6 yrs-50M with a 10M signing bonus. If we give Sam an identical deal to this we are left with $26,871,378.
For EDS I used Scott Wells deal of 4yrs-24M with a 4M signing bonus. Leaves us with $23,791,378
For Pickett I used Paul Soliai's deal of 2yrs-12M with 3.25M signing bonus. Leaves us with $20,136,378
I resigned Finley at 1yr-2.75M with 500K each in Roster and Workout bonuses. Leaves us with $17,331,378.
After Banjo received his Exclusive rights deal, and Lattimore is tendered we are at $16,001,378.
I also resigned Flynn at 2 yrs 1.5M with 500k guaranteed over the 2 years. Leaves us at $15,435,590.

I also then cut Bush, Tolzien, and Brad Jones which brings us back up to $18,431,378.

I wanted to work in Neal and a restructure of Tramon but like I said I wasnt sure how exactly to structure those deals so I didn't. I also wanted to resign Quarless but with resigning Finley, I thought otherwise.

This leaves plenty of money left over to sign a free agent or two (noone top end but contributing players) as well as take care of the draft picks.

Thoughts?

What about JAMES JONES?
I don't see him in either column.
He has to be kept.
John Kuhn?

 

[Ace]

What about JAMES JONES?
I don't see him in either column.
He has to be kept.
John Kuhn?

I disagree on James Jones dont think he is a must resign. That money could be spent more usefully elsewhere. Kuhn I could go either way on. At what it would cost to keep him Id be fine with it but Ive also read that we have had 0 contact with him about resigning.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I disagree on James Jones dont think he is a must resign. That money could be spent more usefully elsewhere. Kuhn I could go either way on. At what it would cost to keep him Id be fine with it but Ive also read that we have had 0 contact with him about resigning.

So you let Jones go.... then when Jordy misses 5 games due to a hammy, you're down to the little guy Cobb, and that's it for a legit weapon for Rodgers.

You have to give Rodgers weapons and Jones has been as durable and steady as anyone has for him outside Jordy.

Not sure of your age, but us older fans remember what happened when Favre's weapons went away, and we had to start stiffs at WR... the Billy Schroeder days, and then worse behind him.

I know Seattle just won without great WRs, but our defense is high school compared to theirs.

 

[Ace]

So you let Jones go.... then when Jordy misses 5 games due to a hammy, you're down to the little guy Cobb, and that's it for a legit weapon for Rodgers.

You have to give Rodgers weapons and Jones has been as durable and steady as anyone has for him outside Jordy.

Not sure of your age, but us older fans remember what happened when Favre's weapons went away, and we had to start stiffs at WR... the Billy Schroeder days, and then worse behind him.

I know Seattle just won without great WRs, but our defense is high school compared to theirs.

First of all... Your assuming Jordy goes down which is unpredictable.

He has weapons in Jordy Cobb Boykin Lacy and possible resign of Finley or Quarless and Ted has been amazing in drafting Wrs.

Jordy and Randall both need to be resigned after this year. Both are better then Jones IMO. Good players are going to have to walk because we need to resign the core player which Jones is not IMO.

To your point on Seattles D being superior to ours is a prime reason to not resign Jones. That money could be better spent on D. I like Jones and I think he is a fine player thats not my issue. This team has other needs and WR isnt one of them.

 

[FrankRizzo]

First of all... Your assuming Jordy goes down which is unpredictable.

He has weapons in Jordy Cobb Boykin Lacy and possible resign of Finley or Quarless and Ted has been amazing in drafting Wrs.

Jordy and Randall both need to be resigned after this year. Both are better then Jones IMO. Good players are going to have to walk because we need to resign the core player which Jones is not IMO.

To your point on Seattles D being superior to ours is a prime reason to not resign Jones. That money could be better spent on D. I like Jones and I think he is a fine player thats not my issue. This team has other needs and WR isnt one of them.

All that you said I agree with, except this part: Your assuming Jordy goes down which is unpredictable.

With this team, you have to expect it. Injuries.
Again, I am old enough to remember our nice receiving corps with Favre and Sharpe and Freeman and Brooks suffer injuries. We ended up having to start stiffs like Bill Schroeder and washed up Mark Ingram and Sanjay Beach, etc.

Our team's strength is offense and primarily the passing game with the MVP Rodgers. We stand no prayer of winning a Super Bowl without that guy leading the way, and he needs reliable targets. We have 3+ Boykin.

Quarless is nothing special.
Finley won't ever play again for us.

And even Jordy didn't do much his rookie season.

James Jones will be a priority this off-season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I thought it would be fun to do some GM work and attempt to figure out who we could resign and still leave money for a FA or 2. I took these numbers from overthecap.com and I think their projection for our available cap space ($29,181,378) is a tad high so adjust accordingly. m

For Shields I used Ladarius Webb's deal of 6 yrs-50M with a 10M signing bonus. If we give Sam an identical deal to this we are left with $26,871,378.
For EDS I used Scott Wells deal of 4yrs-24M with a 4M signing bonus. Leaves us with $23,791,378
For Pickett I used Paul Soliai's deal of 2yrs-12M with 3.25M signing bonus. Leaves us with $20,136,378
I resigned Finley at 1yr-2.75M with 500K each in Roster and Workout bonuses. Leaves us with $17,331,378.
After Banjo received his Exclusive rights deal, and Lattimore is tendered we are at $16,001,378.
I also resigned Flynn at 2 yrs 1.5M with 500k guaranteed over the 2 years. Leaves us at $15,435,590.

I also then cut Bush, Tolzien, and Brad Jones which brings us back up to $18,431,378.

Thoughts?

Some things about your suggestions.

I would be all for signing Shields to a 6-year contract averaging a bit more than $8 million a year, don't think though $10 million guaranteed will be close to what he'll ask for. In addition the contract's structure should be way different than what the Ravens gave Webb as his cap number skyrockets in year 3. In addition it is impossible that Shields cap hit in 2014 would only be around $2,3 million as you suggested.

I would be shocked if EDS gets $6 million a year. If he does, his cap hit should at least be a $1 million higher than what you suggested.

Same with Pickett, no way the Packers are going to pay him $6 million a year as he'll turn 35 in October. Cap hit in 2014 again would be higher.

Finley won't play another down for the Packers, most likely in the NFL. FYI roster and workout bonuses count against the cap.

Banjo's deal would be for $490K next season, Flynn's two-year would have to be for $1,6 million, with $730K counting against the cap in 2014 (veteran's minimum). Not sure what the tender for Lattimore would be.

Cutting Brad Jones, Bush and Tolzien only saves us roughly 900K in cap space.

Here are the free agents I want the Packers to re-sign:
James Jones, John Kuhn, Andrew Quarless, EDS, Matt Flynn, Sam Shields, Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal.

Shields will demand huge money, would be fine with paying him $8 million a year. Don't overpay for Jones, EDS or Neal, offer the rest contracts close to the veteran's minimum (throw some incentives in for Jolly).

Restructure Tramon's contract, sign Chris D. Clemons and Akeem Jordan or Arthur Moats.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Here are the free agents I want the Packers to re-sign:
James Jones, John Kuhn, Andrew Quarless, EDS, Matt Flynn, Sam Shields, Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal.

Restructure Tramon's contract, sign Chris D. Clemons and Akeem Jordan or Arthur Moats.

You had me at RE-SIGN JAMES JONES.
But I agree with the rest of it as well.
While I would prefer the intimidator Pollard to Clemons, I still don't expect anything outta Old Ted, so I'd be giddy if he brought in the veteran Clemons. And then a LB too? Super giddy. Would allow him the true freedom to try and go real BPA in the draft.

 

[Ace]

Some things about your suggestions.

I would be all for signing Shields to a 6-year contract averaging a bit more than $8 million a year, don't think though $10 million guaranteed will be close to what he'll ask for. In addition the contract's structure should be way different than what the Ravens gave Webb as his cap number skyrockets in year 3. In addition it is impossible that Shields cap hit in 2014 would only be around $2,3 million as you suggested.

I would be shocked if EDS gets $6 million a year. If he does, his cap hit should at least be a $1 million higher than what you suggested.

Same with Pickett, no way the Packers are going to pay him $6 million a year as he'll turn 35 in October. Cap hit in 2014 again would be higher.

Finley won't play another down for the Packers, most likely in the NFL. FYI roster and workout bonuses count against the cap.

Banjo's deal would be for $490K next season, Flynn's two-year would have to be for $1,6 million, with $730K counting against the cap in 2014 (veteran's minimum). Not sure what the tender for Lattimore would be.

Cutting Brad Jones, Bush and Tolzien only saves us roughly 900K in cap space.

Here are the free agents I want the Packers to re-sign:
James Jones, John Kuhn, Andrew Quarless, EDS, Matt Flynn, Sam Shields, Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal.

Shields will demand huge money, would be fine with paying him $8 million a year. Don't overpay for Jones, EDS or Neal, offer the rest contracts close to the veteran's minimum (throw some incentives in for Jolly).

Restructure Tramon's contract, sign Chris D. Clemons and Akeem Jordan or Arthur Moats.

Well like I said, I took the numbers straight fron overthecap.com and they were structured exactly like comparable players I thought. A contract/salary cap guru I am not, although Id love to be.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well like I said, I took the numbers straight fron overthecap.com and they were structured exactly like comparable players I thought. A contract/salary cap guru I am not, although Id love to be.

The numbers from overthecap.com are pretty accurate, I use the site as reference as well. It seems like you miscalculated some of the stuff you did in your previous post though.

 

[ivo610]

I thought it would be fun to do some GM work and attempt to figure out who we could resign and still leave money for a FA or 2. I took these numbers from overthecap.com and I think their projection for our available cap space ($29,181,378) is a tad high so adjust accordingly. Now, I'm not exactly sure how these contract structures work so this might not be entirely accurate either but I just though it would be fun. For Sam, EDS, and Pickett I tried to find players with comparable stats and structured their contracts to what those players contacts looked like. This exercise has us resigning Shields, EDS, Pickett, Finley and Flynn while tendering Banjo and Lattimore.

For Shields I used Ladarius Webb's deal of 6 yrs-50M with a 10M signing bonus. If we give Sam an identical deal to this we are left with $26,871,378.
For EDS I used Scott Wells deal of 4yrs-24M with a 4M signing bonus. Leaves us with $23,791,378
For Pickett I used Paul Soliai's deal of 2yrs-12M with 3.25M signing bonus. Leaves us with $20,136,378
I resigned Finley at 1yr-2.75M with 500K each in Roster and Workout bonuses. Leaves us with $17,331,378.
After Banjo received his Exclusive rights deal, and Lattimore is tendered we are at $16,001,378.
I also resigned Flynn at 2 yrs 1.5M with 500k guaranteed over the 2 years. Leaves us at $15,435,590.

I also then cut Bush, Tolzien, and Brad Jones which brings us back up to $18,431,378.

I wanted to work in Neal and a restructure of Tramon but like I said I wasnt sure how exactly to structure those deals so I didn't. I also wanted to resign Quarless but with resigning Finley, I thought otherwise.

This leaves plenty of money left over to sign a free agent or two (noone top end but contributing players) as well as take care of the draft picks.

Thoughts?

throw in extensions for cobb and nelson, what do you project for cap?