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For those who feel Rodgers wasn't to blame in Cincy

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Un4GivN, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Un4GivN
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    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Ok I want to start this off by saying... Rodger is a great QB. And I think Green Bay is truly lucky to have him on their side on Sundays. With that said... I am really sick of people blaming everyone but him. Offensive line, JJ, Cobb for not tackling before the second INT. His play on Sunday was atrocious. With great pay comes great expectations. And if you don't believe what I say, go back and re-watch these plays and tell me I am wrong.

    First a fun stat:

    Rodgers: 26/43 244 and averaged 5.7 per play
    Running game: 30 attempts 182 yards and averaged 6.1 per play


    Bet that hasn't happened in quite some time... Anyways

    So I am going to go over some of the plays that changed that game... you re-watch and decide.

    First Int - 3:11 left in the 3rd -

    2nd and 3 - Rodgers goes deep, and throws it in between two receivers. Not exactly sure who he was even throwing it to. Either he was short throwing to Jones, or long throwing to Jordy. But on that play Cobb is open for the first down which would have moved the chains. Not the biggest deal by itself but if you dont have the arm keep just get the first down.

    3rd and 3 - Now this is the pick... First of all anyone who listens to Aikman's analysis is wrong to begin with. Yes Jones stopped running his route, but I dont believe its because as Aikman said "he sold out his quarterback." What i think happened in reality is that Jones was covered and knew it. Franklin comes out of the backfield with room to run and JJ see this stops in order to set up to block as I am sure he taught to do. This also would have made more sense considering the coverage and the pass to Franklin would have been a lot smarter at the time.

    Put this aspect aside and it was a horrible read by Rodgers... He stared down his receiver and both linebackers floated over to Jones' direction. Leaving Cobb wide-open on the crossing pattern. If Aaron is able to see the field correctly Cobb has more than enough for a first down.

    Second Int - 13:41 4th -

    Not much to say, about the dumbest play you could make in this situation. 5 yards out of the Redzone, 1st down with a lead in the 4th quarter. Just inexcusable for someone who is considered a top 3 quarterback. Added to that his two outlets were wide open on the play.

    Franklin Fumble - 5:14 4th

    2nd and 6 Rodgers takes a sack as he continues to look deep with both of his outlet receivers (Quarless and Franklin) open right in front of him. Either of them would have got a first down. He takes the sack, Cobb ends up 1/2 yard short of the first. And Franklin fumbles on fourth. But it shouldnt have ever made it that far.

    Side note: He made a piss poor attempt at a tackle on that play as well... Not that I expect him to be a great tackler but come on man... give it a better try than that. Also, Im not saying Franklin's mistake is excusable, but you expect more from the highest paid player in the league, than a rookie 4th round running back.

    Final drive - 1:37 4th

    1st down... on the Bengals 20. 1st down he throws to JJ who is double covered and had Cobb open on the same side for 15+ yards. Who know with his speed he could have got it in or at least close.

    My main point of this isn't to say, hey look this guy sucks. But you cant look at the game through rose colored glasses either. Aaron made a plethora of mistakes in that game. Anyone that says this is the offensive lines fault or defense for playing zone has to put equal or more blame on Rodgers.

    One could easily blame him for both INT's and at least 2 of his sacks... Add that to the dumbass move to try and run it in on 3rd and goal and getting rocked.

    He isn't the only reason the Packers lost, but he sure was a big part of it...
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  2. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    To blame the loss on just Arod, no. The muffed return, Franklin fumble and the inability of the defense to make the stop at crunch time all played factors in the downfall. He did however play a part with the 2 INT's and not seeing the short open guys he could have dumped it off to. But you win as a TEAM and lose as a TEAM. IMO, the muff and the fumble were the two worst killers.
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  3. 12theTruth
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    It is easy to spot a FOF! Aaron Rodgers is great, but..... then go on to singular skewer him and mainly him the rest of the article. LOL.
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  4. Un4GivN
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    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Lol I can see your point but that's not it really. All I was trying to do was say it was on everyone.

    Someone tried to defend his second INT by saying Cobb should have tackled Hall before he caught it. Really? That's Cobb's responsibility?

    Also heard that it was the offensive lines fault Rodgers had a bad day. I agree pass protection wasn't great but it wasn't horrendous either.

    It's a team sport, and any of three areas could have helped to win the game. Just saying Rodgers should not be above judgement. He didnt play well and that's a simple fact. Either did Tramon Williams, the defensive line in general, or special team as a whole...
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  5. Lakedog
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    Lakedog Cheesehead

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    It was his worst game as a packer... Its not even close. But...

    You know he wants to throw on first down to open up the run. You know he'd never call a roll-right where the primary receiver was Ross. This is squarely on MM's shoulders. But its not MM's worst game. This is just what he does! Since 2010, he routinely puts Rodgers into 3rd n longs after "establishing we can't run". TT has finally figured out you need a handful of 24 yr old RB's to cycle thru.

    This is still the 2011 & 2012 offense but w TTs RBs. Yes, Rodgers played like he had a concussion, but until MM hands over the play calling duties, Rodgers won't win another SB. And he knows it.
  6. 12theTruth
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    Absolutely! Although if Rodgers can co-exist with a budding running game now things may change if McCarthy gets 'smarter'
  7. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I wonder sometimes if Mike even knows how to utilize a running game. The entire offense would be so much more effective if he used them in concert. He seems to employ the run at the damnest times. Then he falls in love with the run for a few plays forgetting the passing game and vice versa. It is maddening to watch sometimes.
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  8. Un4GivN
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    Un4GivN Cheesehead

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    Quick non-related question... Does anyone remember the play where there was holding on 3rd down on Bakhtiari? The pass was incomplete anyways...So that the Bengals declined and made it 4th and 6. McCarthy puts the offense back on the field, then the Bengals decide they wanted to accept the penalty.

    Maybe its just me but was that McCarthy pulling the trigger too early putting the offense back out. Or are the Bengals able to change their mind? Or did the refs just total F that one up?
  9. easyk83
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    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    You're overreacting, I said Cobb bore some of the blame and he does. However most blame does lay with Aaron Rodgers making a bad throw into tight coverage. I'd say Rodgers 80%, Cobb 20%.
  10. easyk83
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    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    How much of it is McCarthy and how much of it is Rodgers? Rodgers loves to check out of run plays and pass instead.
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  11. Royal Pain
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    If you watch the post game interviews on packers.com, JJ clearly takes the blame for the first int. While Rodgers did credit the db with making a good play on the 2nd int, he did point out that his overall play was poor and admitted that he should have made the tackle on the fumble recovery.
    I'm not sure why it matters what people in this forum think, but I have seen numerous posts stating that Rodgers had a poor game. Probably as many as those that are placing the blame elsewhere. Saw the same thing during the Favre years. The players know when they screw up and Rodgers is the first to admit it and throw himself under the bus.
    I didn't get to see much of the game, but judging from some of the comments on here it sounds like Rodgers was trying to go deep too often and not taking the safer underneath routes. I wonder if he might have been a little overconfident after his performance against the skins and got away from taking what the defense gave him. The good thing is, he's smart and learns from these performances.
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  12. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    I hope that we don't get used to saying "team loss" this year, because that's what it was.
  13. 13 Times Champs
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    No Cobb didn't throw the ball. All on Rodgers. It's just stupid to say Cobb should have made up for a terrible decision.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
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  14. 98Redbird
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    Rodgers pooped the bed.

    And so did numerous other Packers'

    To blame it on Rodgers is stupid. However, that doesn't absolve him from taking a large portion of the blame.

    My biggest issue was the play calling on the last drive. All they did was throw to the flat... over and over again. When you've got two defensive linemen pulling off of an engagement and both simultaneously jumping, hey, McCarthy, they KNOW what's coming. So what's he do? Throws to the other flat... That'll get em guys!! We'll really confuse them here, we'll just throw to the left side rather than the right... I really don't care for McCarthy when the game is on the line. Never have.

    That all said, hard at the moment to call Rodgers the best in the business... What Manning is doing this year is unreal for those who have actually watched Broncos games.

    Rodgers does need to take some responsibility for his play in the 4th quarter. Over his career it hasn't been the best, regardless of how awful the defense was.
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  15. PFanCan
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    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    On that last play: Rodgers was broadcasting exactly where he was throwing that ball from the hike. He never scanned the field or anything. The defender had an easy job of timing his jump, imo.
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  16. 13 Times Champs
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    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Yepper the check out plays by Rodgers are the ones that work. :giggle:
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  17. easyk83
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    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    A ridiculous and indefensible assertion and most NFL players, analysts and columnists would disagree with you. There is not one and only one sacrificial goat on any particular play. Often multiple players are in the wrong even if one player made the primary mistake. A bobbled quarterback/rb exchange doesn't excuse the lineman who was blown up in the resulting tfl/fumble. Nor does a turnover excuse an offensive's player's lackluster pursuit of the Defensive ball carrier. Aaron didn't fumble the ball therefore he's excused from a poor tackle etc. Most team's regard the ability to know when to turn into a Defender to be essential to even being on the field as a receiver. I guarantee that Aaron's play was criticized on Monday morning, I also guarantee that Cobb took some heat for not recognizing a likely impending pick and not turning into a defender.
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  18. 98Redbird
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    Doesn't help that the cut block by Bakthiari wasn't the best either... Couldn't tell if it was poor effort or just a good play by the DE (Who is listed at 6'7" btw)
  19. 13 Times Champs
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    It is not a ridiculous and indefensible assertion and neither would most NFL analysts, players or columnist's agree with your position in every instance. That play was entirely different from the examples you presented. There is one and only one goat on certain plays. Ross was clearly the one and only goat on the fumbled kick off return. A guy drops a perfectly thrown TD pass. These are the one and only goats. You have absolutely no way of knowing whether Cobb got a ream job Monday morning. It's your opinion(because it supports your position) without any basis for saying that.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  20. PFanCan
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    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Bakthiari said in an interview that he accepts the blame for missing that cut block. He did, however, offer an excuse that they had been cut blocking a lot and the defenders were expecting it to happen. (sorry, but I don't have a link handy on this)
  21. easyk83
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    If a quarterback fails to see a linebacker dropping into coverage and throws it right to said Defender, then most likely the receiver is not at fault. However there are certain questions we have to ask before determining whether or the receiver bears some of the blame. First was the receiver in position to see the bad play before it happened. In this case could Cobb see that he had a defender in his face? Could he see that the ball's trajectory was relatively flat? If you answered no to either of these then we must assume that Randall Cobb is in fact legally blind and this whole conversation is moot.

    Assuming he is not legally blind, was he in position to realize that the incoming pass would likely be a pick? Almost certainly yes, there was sufficient time for an instinctive realization that a turnover was about to occur. Was he in position to break up the Defender's play on the ball, even if doing so would have resulted in a penalty? Since he was right behind Newman and within easy arm's reach of him, absolutely. Then the final question, did Cobb do anything to break up the interception? No he did not. Did Randall Cobb's failure negatively affect the outcome of the game, yes it did.

    If you want to criticize Aaron Rodgers for a poor play go ahead, Ive agreed with you. But don't act like Randall Cobb was just an innocent bystander on that poor pass. He absolutely was in a position to break it up and he didn't.

    BTW watch the gameday highlights from NFL.com the ex players in that commentary specifically criticize for Rodgers and Cobb for that play. Like I said in the first place if you're going to play in the NFL as a receiver you need to know when to turn into a defender, and sometimes that involves eating a penalty.
  22. 13 Times Champs
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    We are just going to disagree. Once again your post is laced with assumptions and places responsibility where it doesn't belong. Hell you don't even know what Cobb was thinking or saw. It is just obscene to lay blame on Cobb for what was a piss poor throw by Rodgers.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  23. Un4GivN
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    Rogers failed to see that the corner didn't bit on the out route... Thus was going to be step-for-step with Cobb on the up part of the route. The two underneath receivers were wide open and it was first down. The pass should have never been thrown. This is on Rodgers 100%
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  24. FrankRizzo
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    Great post, great info. Very accurate and honest.
    Look, Michael Jordan in his prime had some 6-21 shooting nights that left he Bulls with a loss.

    Rodgers had a very rare bad game, with critical mistakes that proved fatal. Drew Brees had a game last year with FIVE interceptions.
    Peyton Manning had 2 interceptions in their home playoff choke to the Ravens, including in overtime that proved fatal to their season.

    For people to give Rodgers all the credit when he racks up great numbers but to ignore or deny that he sucked and he more than anyone blew that game in Cinci, well that's pretty disingenous.

    The only excuse I can think of for him is he may have had a mild concussion from one of those hits to the head early in the game, and he and/or the team either kept it hidden or didn't detect it. We've seen that happen before I remember, investigated by the old Greg A Bedard.
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  25. Forget Favre
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    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    On the one hand:
    If they had to have another stock sale to claim you as a Packers owner to meet Air-Run's salary and if I was one of those buyers, right now I wouldn't feel like I was getting my monies worth.

    On the other:
    If I was part of the Packers personal, (Thankfully I'm not.) I wouldn't be blaming anyone or pointing any fingers.
    Instead I'd be concerned with who will be healthy enough to start, which of our starters and best players is going to be healthy though out the season and into the playoffs and how we can come together and improve and function as a better team to win games.
    Especially against teams that have better records than us.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
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