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For the record, TT critics, stake your position

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Bus Cook, Dec 10, 2013.

  1. Hjalmar Davidson
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    Hjalmar Davidson Cheesehead

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    Every one on the couch seems to be an expert these days. Everyone but me that is. I have no problem admitting I'm not an expert on the draft or schemes. TT and MM have had a lot of success and won a championship. Thats good enough for me. Come to think about it, what teams have been in the mix consistently as Green Bay has? Not very many at all. And who is better than them and available ?
    I also don't think there is anything wrong with having a dessenting opinion either. I've always thought of our team and its fans as "a cut above" the others. If we have to attack each other because we disagree then what does that make us?.....Bears fans, thats what!:eek: ... Lets not go there.
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  2. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan USMC4EVER

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    How many damn TT threads do we really need? Delete this crap plz.
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  3. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And you wonder why people get defensive when words like that are tossed about?
  4. Southpaw
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    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    How about words like ungrateful, spoiled and the like. Once again pot, meet kettle.
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  5. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Funny thing about using selective fact as facts. But its not hard to do.

    Here are some more selective facts:

    TT inherited an offensive line that was considered by mant to be the best in the NFL. To date, evenif you were to take the pick of TTs almost 30 OL picks, you couldn't assemble a line anywhere close to how wel that line was.

    Last year in the playoffs. One then done.

    Year before in the playoffs. One and done

    This year in the playoffs. Done

    TT inherited a line of the most successful QB 20+ year runs in the history of Football. The last three years he has allowed this treasure to be the most sacke treasure in the NFL.

    TT was the ONLY GM in the NFL to cut both of his back up QBs, 6 days before the season.

    TT is the only GM to wear cargo shorts.
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  6. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    And you have no emotion?

    Let me be the first poster to welcome Dr. Spock to Packer Forum.
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  7. BorderRivals.com
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    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Brutal. That unbelievable line he inherited were also on the tail end of their careers and wanted too expensive of contracts. Because Sherman was a terrible GM, the cap structure was in shambles. He had to cut those players. Also, after those unbelievable guys signed elsewhere for huge $$$, did they go on to have illustrious seasons or did father time finally catch up to them? I'm sure knowing the truth doesn't matter for your argument though.

    TT inherited Favre on the back end of his career, who is in the midst of throwing soul-crushing INTs at all critical moments in the playoffs (see NFC Championship and Eagles OT games). But guess what TT did, he took Rodgers with his first ever draft pick. Let's put this into context more before you say Rodgers fell into his lap or some other nonsense like that. TT was a first-time GM in his very first draft. He inherits a mess, but still a good team that was in the playoffs. He has a QB that is considered deity by the entirety of Packer nation. And said QB was playing part-time GM in making it known he wants more weapons for one final run at a SB. So, what does TT do with his very first pick in the draft? He drafts Rodgers, a QB on a free-fall to be the heir apparent. He stuck to his plan, scouting, and philosophy. At the time, it was widely ridiculed. But now, it has to be considered one of the best draft picks in team history.

    Is he perfect? No. But no one is. Is he one of the best? Yes, and it's not even debatable really.
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  8. BorderRivals.com
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    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Where do you put this in your selective facts?

    [​IMG]
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  9. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    I put it right upthere with Wolf, as a part of history. The NFL is what have you done for me lately. I don't give on bit of credit to Wolf or Thompson. They were both the beneficiaries of legenday QBs. Without Favre/Rodgers, Wolf and Thompson are a Holiday Inn lounge act
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  10. BorderRivals.com
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    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Beneficiaries of legendary QBs? You do remember how both said legendary QBs were acquired, right? Wolf trading a first-round pick to ATL for it's third-string QB. And I already explained what TT did.

    This is the most asinine comment ever. You have to be trolling at this point to make such a comment.
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  11. Ogsponge
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    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Lol, Bus you are going of the rails here, you give no credit to Wolf even?.

    1. Wolf fires Infante and hires Holmgren - ya that was a really poor decision

    2. As mentioned above, he then trades his 1ST ROUND PICK for a back up QB - ya that was a really poor decision

    3. He then signs arguably the most sought after and best free agent in the history of NFL free agency in Reggie White - ya that was a really poor decision

    4. He brought in Bag o' Donuts via plan B free agency - that was a bad move

    5. After a terrible injury to Robert Brooks the GB offense began to sputter and he made the decision to bring in the much maligned, house burning down, Andre Rison - another bad move

    6. He signed Desmond Howard before the start of the 1996 season - really bad move there

    7. besides Reggie the other 3 starting defensive lineman for the 1996 superbowl winning team? Santana Dotson, Sean Jones & Gravedigger. All brought in via moves made by Ron Wolf - man was it a bad decision to bring in those guys in as part of the #1 defense in the league that year.

    Yep, Ron wolf road the coattails of just one player. I look forward to any possible argument you try to make as to how after seeing the FACTS, Ron Wolf did nothing but ride Favre's coattails...
  12. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    What you describe is called the job of a GM. I don't care about the suits. I'm a fan of players. I have swag featuring players. Sometimes I thing that some of you have Mike McCarthy jerseys and Ted Thompson fatheads
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  13. adambr2
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    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Wrong. TT lost Mike Wahle in his first year because he was owed an unaffordable $11M, and an aging Marco Rivera. He never had either to work with. That's 2/5ths of the line right there, with Flanagan soon to follow. He had to rebuild the line almost from scratch. Even it it was true, you're just cherry picking positional strengths and weaknesses. Any team is going to have both. Before Thompson, our WR corps was extraordinarily weak in the late 90's/early 2000's, and that's now a strength.

    So your bar of success is basically that a GM is a failure if he doesn't make the NFC Championship Game every year. Good to know. You'll never be happy with any GM here.

    This is so deceiving it's not even funny. Thompson inherited a Sherman team, not a Wolf team. Thompson didn't inherit the 1996 NFL Champion team. He inherited a team in salary cap hell from a horrible GM who gave large deals to players like Cletidus Hunt, Joe Johnson, etc.

    It might be because they both sucked and he was willing to admit that and go another route rather than force a year with Harrell as backup again. Just a thought.
  14. Ogsponge
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    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Excellent, in other words what you are saying is that you have absolutely no logical rebuttal what so ever to offer to the fact that Wolf did more that ride the coattails of Favre.

    Game. Set. Match.
  15. Bus Cook
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    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    I could go all day about your selective fact. You dispute that prior to TT we had the best oline in the NFL. I would argure otherwise. How he lost it isn't important. He has had 8 years to replace, Wahle, Flanagan, and Rivera. Fewer years to replace Clifton and Tauscher, BUT THE FACT REMAINS, HE HASN'T.

    Game set match.
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  16. Ogsponge
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    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Bus, I have not talked about anything other than your silly assertion that Wolf rode Favre's coattails, and again, instead of having a rebuttal to the facts of what wolf did to help create a Super Bowl winning team, what you do is deflect and obfuscate the facts but putting words in my mouth. Never in my recent posts have I talked about TT yet you try to make it so.

    So again, do you have a single logical comment regarding what I am talking to you about, which in case you for is Wolf riding Favre's coattails?
  17. adambr2
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    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    So without a good QB, a GM will not look good. They will look much better if they have a good QB.

    BRILLIANT! Thank you for telling us what we already know -- that the QB is by far the most important position on an NFL team and therefore the priority of a GOOD GM is to make sure that they have their man. Look no farther than the Vikings to see how far a franchise player that ISN'T a QB will take you. Do I really need to speculate on how good the Saints look if Chase Daniel is behind center the last 5 years? Or how good Belichick looks if the Patriots never find Brady?

    I also love how you do admit that Rodgers and Favre are enormous factors of having a top team, but you give zero credit to the GM's who actually went out and acquired them. Like they just fell on our lap from the legendary QB tree.
  18. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Contrast this:
    With what is perhaps the most ignorant statement ever posted on a fan board of any team:
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  19. GoPGo
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    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    I think Dr. Spock would make a better GM than Dr. Phil.
  20. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The oline you mention that was best in the NFL?

    2001 embarrassed in St Louis
    2002 lost to Atlanta at home----1 and done
    2003 needed over time and Hassleback to win, then 4th and 26th
    2004 lost to Vikings at home in WC--- 1 and done

    So while it was the best, they didnt win anything..They went 2-3 in the playoffs..Dallas with their oline won 3 SB?? 2 SB?

    I agree 100% that one bad issue is he never got a suitable o-l...But it isnt like he ignored it for 8 years...You are just stretching the line issues a bit

    Buluga is a fine one, (1st RT rookie to be starter on a SB winning team?? Might be wrong) but injury plays a part in some of our troubles...Sherrod as well..He drafted those 2 as #1.. Those were suppose to be book ends for a long time...

    He has tried to fix it...Sitton and TJ are quality guys and were drafted in the 4th round..If Sherrod and Buluga never got hurt--those are solid 4 guys..

    You go into camp with Buluga, TJ, Sitton, ED Smith, along with others...A total of 15 lineman...Then as preseason is about to start, down goes probably your best tackle..Ted can't be faulted for that...Even if you do, he drafted 2 T this year..

    I think this past draft Ted was worried that Sherrod might not play this year, hence why he drafted 2 T..

    As it turns out Bakh--was a solid pick up to replace Buluga...Maybe if he didnt go down, Bakh plays somewhere else?? Then that isnt a horrible line..
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  21. GoPGo
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    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    You started this thread because you were lamenting how downtrodden and abused you poor TT haters were. But instead you've turned it into yet another opportunity for YOU to denigrate anyone who dares to NOT hate TT and instead has the ability to appreciate his work. Hell, I don't know why you're being allowed to get away with it so much but I know I and several others would have been banned for the crap you're pulling.
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  22. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Come on now guys...this forum is a place that allows fans to express how they feel and to voice their OPINIONS. i'll say it again...OPINIONS. So what if it doesn't always make sense in your eyes or you disagree he's entitled to his OPINION about TT, MM, a player or whoever. I disagree with some of the things he said yes, but i also agree with some of the things he's said as well..and i'm talking about this thread alone. Some of you just have to attack and ridicule like it gives you some sense of entitlement. If you don't like what the guy has to say ignore him and move around, or else be quiet. Not everyone is a freakin troll goodness:rolleyes:
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  23. Carl
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    Carl Cheesehead

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    You're right. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't make up for an o-line getting worse...

    Winning is more important than specific positions not being good.
  24. BorderRivals.com
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    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Completely agree. He claims TT hasn't done his job in replacing the line. But, it's not for a lack of effort. Two first round picks were injured. TT can't control that. If we have two first round picks playing at T, with a Pro Bowl guard in Sitton, and Lang and EDS who are more than serviceable, this is a very good line. Bad luck due to injuries can't be ignored when making this argument. But, when it goes against your theory, you have to ignore it.
  25. GoPGo
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    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Yes he can have his opinions (which have already been well documented ad nauseum) but he's not entitled to attack and ridicule (as you put it) anyone who doesn't see things his way without being challenged on it.

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