For the record, TT critics, stake your position

[Bus Cook]

I as well as a few other posters here are highly critical of Dom Capers, MM and or TT. I often get the feeling that I, as well as a few of the others, are not extremely welcome here. Posters who can't entertain disenting opinion, feel the need to cry to the mods about us, ignore us, and/or ridicule us. Get over it. On Sunday, I wear the heavy piece of cheese on my head, a packer jersey, zubaz and more. I'm in SE michigan and I get my grief from the locals about my Packer pride. The other six days, I comment on what will make the team better IMHO. You be a fan your way, I'll be one my way.

Looking to see how other TT detractors see themselves.
Looking to see why TT supporters feel so compromised by disenting opinion.

 

[thisisnate]

I as well as a few other posters here are highly critical of Dom Capers, MM and or TT. I often get the feeling that I, as well as a few of the others, are not extremely welcome here. On Sunday, I wear the heavy piece of cheese on my head, a packer jersey, zubaz and more.

Never had a problem with you until that, my friend.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I as well as a few other posters here are highly critical of Dom Capers, MM and or TT. I often get the feeling that I, as well as a few of the others, are not extremely welcome here. Posters who can't entertain disenting opinion, feel the need to cry to the mods about us, ignore us, and/or ridicule us. Get over it. On Sunday, I wear the heavy piece of cheese on my head, a packer jersey, zubaz and more. I'm in SE michigan and I get my grief from the locals about my Packer pride. The other six days, I comment on what will make the team better IMHO. You be a fan your way, I'll be one my way.

Looking to see how other TT detractors see themselves.
Looking to see why TT supporters feel so compromised by disenting opinion.

No problem here Bus. You have a perfect right to your opinions. Some of your comments crack me up!

 

[Carl]

Probably feel that way because nobody as offered strong evidence against MM and TT that outweighs all their success.

Can't argue that the team hasn't been good under them and can't argue that the last 5 games overrule the success.

All you can do is speculate that another GM or coach could have done better.

 

[Bus Cook]

Never had a problem with you until that, my friend.

BWHAHHHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[VolvoD]

Probably feel that way because nobody as offered strong evidence against MM and TT that outweighs all their success.

Can't argue that the team hasn't been good under them and can't argue that the last 5 games overrule the success.

All you can do is speculate that another GM or coach could have done better.

that sums it up. If the Packers had no talent on their team, had multiple losing seasons, didn't get to playoffs, didn't win a super bowl...

but guess what? under Ted the Packers have thrived. Hating on him seems rather silly.

 

[Carl]

that sums it up. If the Packers had no talent on their team, had multiple losing seasons, didn't get to playoffs, didn't win a super bowl...

but guess what? under Ted the Packers have thrived. Hating on him seems rather silly.

And I'll take proven success over hope of a new GM/coach doing better any time.

 

[Southpaw]

It's unfortunate that those who don't worship Thompson and everything this organization does get ridiculed on here.

Apparently because I'm not grateful that I'm not a fan of the Bengals or that "we at least made the playoffs" makes me a bad/fairweather fan or a bandwagon jumper. A spoiled kid who doesn't appreciate anything. What a joke.

For much of my past personal and professional life I've accepted being just good and telling myself I could be worse off, and I'll tell you it's the worst attitude to have. I changed that facet of my life and made every attempt to be the absolute best that I can be.

Perhaps that approach to being a fan of this team rubs people the wrong way, but I couldn't care less.

The TT fanatics are clinging to past success as the reason that nothing is wrong. Let met tell you, when your QB goes down and you can only (barely) amass one win over possibly the worst team in the NFL, there is something wrong.

And the nuthuggers will say "ermahgerd don't u remember SB XLV?!?!?!?!" or "you spoiled ungrateful *****, we won the SB with X amount of players we can do it again!" Clearly these plebs have no concept of evolution and variance. Apparently the Packers are the only ones getting better while everyone else is standing still.

Just because you did it once this way, doesn't mean it's going to work every time. If it did, the Bears would probably still be running the 46 defense and the run and shoot would still work.

I'm not saying we need to fire Ted or that he's not a good GM, he is, but he's not excluded from criticizm or blame from sitting on his hands when he should have been taking action.

Some guys like Capers and Lovat need to be given the boot. Most of the time it's case in which we succeed in spite of both of these clowns.

 

[TJV]

I have no problem with dissenting opinions regarding the Packers organization in general or any particular member of it.

However the writer of the OP has stated that he is a huge Favre fan and hates Thompson. He is one of those so-called Packers fans who believed Favre was the franchise, as ridiculous as that sounds. He has also impugned Thompson's character. So I have no respect for him. And IMO it is obvious every post he writes is so biased by his hatred for Thompson, they deserve no respect whatever.

 

[AmishMafia]

It's unfortunate that those who don't worship Thompson and everything this organization does get ridiculed on here.

Apparently because I'm not grateful that I'm not a fan of the Bengals or that "we at least made the playoffs" makes me a bad/fairweather fan or a bandwagon jumper. A spoiled kid who doesn't appreciate anything. What a joke.

For much of my past personal and professional life I've accepted being just good and telling myself I could be worse off, and I'll tell you it's the worst attitude to have. I changed that facet of my life and made every attempt to be the absolute best that I can be.

Congrats. Are you the CEO of a fortune 500 company? No? Then you are a complete and utter failure. You should immediately start doing something different in your life. At least that is the standard you hold TT to.

Perhaps that approach to being a fan of this team rubs people the wrong way, but I couldn't care less.

The TT fanatics are clinging to past success as the reason that nothing is wrong. Let met tell you, when your QB goes down and you can only (barely) amass one win over possibly the worst team in the NFL, there is something wrong.

Where you also complaining after the Superbowl that TT sucked? Maybe it is a little silly that so many posters (not you) have just signed up or have not posted in years and suddenly they are back to remind us that they were right all along and TT sucks. We need a new term - they are not 'fair weather fans', just the opposite. "Fowl weather anti-fans" maybe?

Am I living in the past? Hell, we just won a game - why are you complaining? You're not living in the past regarding those losses back in November, are you? Do you judge Rodgers by his career and what he has done overall? Or the next time he throws and bad pass are you going to yell at your TV and tell the world how much AR sucks? Hell, he threw a bad pass therefore he sucks - no sense living in the past.

And the nuthuggers will say . . .

Hmmmm, and you can't understand why your opinions are not respected? Maybe this is the area you can make changes in your life to become that fortune 500 CEO. Handle your discussions in a respectful and intelligent manner while keeping an open mind to possible new ideas.

"ermahgerd don't u remember SB XLV?!?!?!?!" or "you spoiled ungrateful *****, we won the SB with X amount of players we can do it again!" Clearly these plebs have no concept of evolution and variance. Apparently the Packers are the only ones getting better while everyone else is standing still.

Just because you did it once this way, doesn't mean it's going to work every time. If it did, the Bears would probably still be running the 46 defense and the run and shoot would still work.

I'm not saying we need to fire Ted or that he's not a good GM, he is, but he's not excluded from criticizm or blame from sitting on his hands when he should have been taking action.

This is only in your mind. Most posters take a realistic approach to our armchair GM duties. We don't jump in after the fact and criticize using the benfit of hindsight. Should TT have had a better option at backup QB? Yes! Can we ridicule him for not? Why? He didn't sign a veteran backup OT, C, LS, K, and CB either. There is only so much money to go around you just can't expect TT or any GM in the NFL to stock a complete roster with stellar backups.

Some guys like Capers and Lovat need to be given the boot. Most of the time it's case in which we succeed in spite of both of these clowns.

Okay, actually agree with you on that last sentence.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Bus Cook]

I have no problem with dissenting opinions regarding the Packers organization in general or any particular member of it.

However the writer of the OP has stated that he is a huge Favre fan and hates Thompson. He is one of those so-called Packers fans who believed Favre was the franchise, as ridiculous as that sounds. He has also impugned Thompson's character. So I have no respect for him. And IMO it is obvious every post he writes is so biased by his hatred for Thompson, they deserve no respect whatever.

Once again Jack can't open his mouth without BS coming out of it. Here is the post in question, as refered to by Jack.

Biggest Packer fan on my block
Biggest Favre fan in my state
Biggest AR fan in my state
Biggest TT hater in my state

So Jack, as you can see I'm not just a Favre fan. Apparently your hatred for him precludes you honestly summing up my opinion. You fail to note that I also am a a huge Packer and Rodgers fan. You may be able to note that by seeing that those two statements sandwich the one you refer to. But that wouldn't fit well into your ignorant conclusion that I feel that Favre was the franchise. It only sounds ridiculous when you intentionally misquote me.

Truth > Made up ****

 

[13 Times Champs]

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[DevilDon]

We need a new term - they are not 'fair weather fans', just the opposite. "Fowl weather anti-fans" maybe?

Hey careful there Amish, you see I declare myself an "inclement weather fan" which is to say I'm still a fan when bad weather is on the team. It is now and I'm still rootin' and shoutin' for wins each week.
Inclement weather anti-fans works.
I guess being a fan is different for everyone. I just don't get being a fan and booing your team at the half and complaining about how they should have done this or that or this as though a poster here has a clue what an NFL team does. For all the complaining about a backup QB, how the heck can you possibly say that Jackson wasn't the answer all along? You can't and I can't and it will remain that way.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

For all the complaining about a backup QB, how the heck can you possibly say that Jackson wasn't the answer all along? You can't and I can't and it will remain that way.

My favorite is how critics point to the backup QB issue and say how stupid TT is, but then don't bother accounting for how paying for a better backup implicates the rest of the roster and cap structure. Or the poster doesn't care to realize the Packers are far from the only team with an elite QB without a viable backup QB (see Falcons (Dominique Davis), Saints (Luke McCown), Broncos (Osweiler) ...).

 

[DevilDon]

I'll state my opinion on TT critics. You people seem to be like the neighbor when you buy a new truck they ask did you get the upgraded engine or leather. Look. I understand you think GMs should be better. Who doesn't like success for the team they root for.
But I rarely see any positive from you. The one thing I never see is a response from "who should they get" if they let TT go? Who's better?
I'm enjoying the season, I come to the forum to root and cheer for my team. I'm just a different kind of fan I suppose. I don't go all ballistic when the team loses or has a poor game. I just get tired of complains when I want to enjoy the team. I know, I can put every single one of you on ignore but sometimes there's a pretty good iota of thought so I read it all but it gets tiring.
Every poster here wants success for the Green Bay Packers but the difference is that some folks are convinced they know how to do it better than the pros.

 

[AmishMafia]

Every poster here wants success for the Green Bay Packers but the difference is that some folks are convinced they know how to do it better than the pros.

I have no problem with someone thinking they know more than TT and expressing their view. Hey, if I was in charge I would do things differently than TT at times also. Its the persons who rip on TT and think him a fool because of his decisions which they can analyze with the benefit hindsight. How many of these posters where demanding TT sign Steven Jackson and Dwight Freeny. Guess what? Thats $10M right there and we are over the cap. And how much have they contributed to their teams? Not much. How many of these people saying we should have signed Flynn earlier are posting, 'we could have had signed Flynn before Buffalo did - but of course his contract was for $6.5M per year and I advocated signing Freeny and Jackson, who are both currently not playing due to injuries, therefore in my fantasy GM role I would not have had the money available, so I will just shut up as TT is doing a better job than I am.'

Some people derive enjoyment out of complaining. Nothing is ever enjoyed for what it is - it is kind of sad.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

My only concern with Thompson is that having the best QB in the league can cover up a lot of faults and this front office has lost quite a bit of brain power over the last few years. When I discuss the GM, I'm really talking about the whole front office staff. Has Thompson been a good GM over his tenure with the Packers? Of course he has, that's not even a question. What is a question is whether Rodgers has managed to compensate for a decline in the front office over the past couple years. Recent drafts from the Packers haven't been as successful as past drafts, there's really no arguing that. Outside of Cobb I can't think of a single great player that Thompson has drafted in the past four years. In his first four drafts TT drafted Rodgers, Collins, Nelson, Jones, Finley, Sutton and Matt Flynn. While some may disagree with Finley's inclusion, try and remember how dominant he was before hurting his knee (that playoff game was INSANE). I didn't include CM3 in that list because I wanted to keep the timeframes similar but you get the point.

Now, the problem that TT presents is that he relies SO heavily on the draft that any decline, if it exists, becomes a pretty big problem. Do I still think Thompson is a good GM? Yeah. Is he perfect? Nope, and I won't ignore his flaws just because he's better than some of the other GMs in the NFL.

 

[13 Times Champs]

My only concern with Thompson is that having the best QB in the league can cover up a lot of faults and this front office has lost quite a bit of brain power over the last few years. When I discuss the GM, I'm really talking about the whole front office staff. Has Thompson been a good GM over his tenure with the Packers? Of course he has, that's not even a question. What is a question is whether Rodgers has managed to compensate for a decline in the front office over the past couple years. Recent drafts from the Packers haven't been as successful as past drafts, there's really no arguing that. Outside of Cobb I can't think of a single great player that Thompson has drafted in the past four years. In his first four drafts TT drafted Rodgers, Collins, Nelson, Jones, Finley, Sutton and Matt Flynn. While some may disagree with Finley's inclusion, try and remember how dominant he was before hurting his knee (that playoff game was INSANE). I didn't include CM3 in that list because I wanted to keep the timeframes similar but you get the point.

Now, the problem that TT presents is that he relies SO heavily on the draft that any decline, if it exists, becomes a pretty big problem. Do I still think Thompson is a good GM? Yeah. Is he perfect? Nope, and I won't ignore his flaws just because he's better than some of the other GMs in the NFL.

If he remains healthy I do think Lacy could break the string. Spot on with the rest of your post.

 

[AmishMafia]

Outside of Cobb I can't think of a single great player that Thompson has drafted in the past four years. In his first four drafts TT drafted Rodgers, Collins, Nelson, Jones, Finley, Sutton and Matt Flynn. While some may disagree with Finley's inclusion, try and remember how dominant he was before hurting his knee (that playoff game was INSANE). I didn't include CM3 in that list because I wanted to keep the timeframes similar but you get the point.

Now, the problem that TT presents is that he relies SO heavily on the draft that any decline, if it exists, becomes a pretty big problem. Do I still think Thompson is a good GM? Yeah. Is he perfect? Nope, and I won't ignore his flaws just because he's better than some of the other GMs in the NFL.

Funny thing, the players you mention as being great picks all have one thing in common (except Sitton). They all didn't provide much impact until the 3rd of 4th year.

Jordy Nelson
3rd year 45 Rec 582 yds 2 TDs
4th year 68 Rec 1200 yds 15 TDs

Finley 2nd year
Jones 6th year


Anyway, here are a few players who may still break out (from most to least likely per year):

2010 draft
Quarless - has done okay at times - had the biggest game of his career last week
Bulaga - Our best tackle when healthy, hope he comes back fine
Newhouse - bwhahahaha, just kidding - you can't win em all
Neal - experiment at OLB is better than I expected. Give him till next season to see if it clicks

2011 draft
Randall Cobb - most agree on this
Davon House - I like House and think he will have a good career for the Packers
Derrek Sherrod - If he can overcome the broke leg, it will be interesting to see what he can become

2012 draft
Casey Hayward - serious consideration for defensive rookie of the year, luckily his injury has a high recovery rate
Mike Daniels - looking like a very good DE for us (I think you maybe forgot about him)
Nick Perry - Still adjusting to the pro game
Jerrel Worthy - he hasn't shown me much, but there is still a chance he comes through

2013 draft (way to soon but . . .)
Lacy - probably the steal of the draft so far
Bak - wait, this may be the 2nd steal of the draft
Hyde - no pick surprised me with his impact as much as Micah
Jones - I think he will be special
Boyd/Palmer/Barrington who knows?

 

[weeds]

I've lived through Tom Bratz haters, Ron Wolf haters, Mike Sherman haters now Ted Thompson haters ... I don't remember who the very forgettable "GM's" were prior... Dan Devine?? Someone is always going to pi$$ and moan about something -- usually they're wives -- so ... you know, I have an innate ability to shut out those who gurgle and grumble and what not ... I've been with the same woman for 30 years AND her mother is still alive... so... ya know...

Internet ranters have made me immune... for example:

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[GoPGo]

Biggest TT hater in my state.

And therein dies your credibility. Hatred is an emotion and emotions cloud judgment.

 

[TJV]

Once again Jack can't open his mouth without BS coming out of it.

That’s ironic.

This poster has no regard for Vince Lombardi: “Seriously. Its been 50+ years. I wasn't born. So, no, I don't have a Vince Lombardi poster/jersey/shrine.” He can’t restrict his hatred of Thompson to football matters, “I was a packer fan before our former QB threw his first pass and TT came out of the closet.” “I like to think of TT as the best alternative lifestyle GM in the history of the NFL...” His hatred for Thompson carries over to McCarthy: “McCra%%y – Play caller with an odd number of chromosomes.” Bears fans I know don’t spew this kind of vile crap about members of the Packers organization. And they have more reverence for Vince Lombardi and more respect for Thompson and McCarthy. With “fans” like this…

IMO the more objective and knowledgeable fans on this forum, the better. This poster is neither. “I know that I've been a TT hater from day one…” From day one – the antithesis of objectivity. His hatred of Thompson leads him to posting ridiculous things like: Drafting Casey Hayward was a “whiff”. He posted he hoped EDS would get injured (nothing serious though). And, “If you would have bought Peyton Manning in 6 days before the opener, I would have thought it to be bad.”

And he wonders why he feels he’s “not extremely welcome here”? Ironic.

 

[adambr2]

I as well as a few other posters here are highly critical of Dom Capers, MM and or TT. I often get the feeling that I, as well as a few of the others, are not extremely welcome here. Posters who can't entertain disenting opinion, feel the need to cry to the mods about us, ignore us, and/or ridicule us. Get over it. On Sunday, I wear the heavy piece of cheese on my head, a packer jersey, zubaz and more. I'm in SE michigan and I get my grief from the locals about my Packer pride. The other six days, I comment on what will make the team better IMHO. You be a fan your way, I'll be one my way.

Looking to see how other TT detractors see themselves.
Looking to see why TT supporters feel so compromised by disenting opinion.

No one feels compromised by your opinion. Yet nowhere in a thread asking TT haters to stake their position, did you actually do it. There is no reasoning, just a flat out statement.

Here are the facts:

TT took over a rebuilding franchise in salary cap hell. By his third year, he brought a division title back and his team made it all the way to the NFC Championship game. Since then, he has only missed the playoffs once. No team has more playoff appearances since the 2007 season than the Packers.

The track record of sustained success over his tenure is really rivaled only by the Ravens and Patriots. Search online for "ranking the NFL GM's." You'll find that it is extremely difficult to find any one that doesn't rank Thompson and/or the Packers front office in their top 5.

So you've got regular season and postseason success, and you've got almost unanimous opinion of his place among NFL GM's.

Despite all this, you are arrogant enough to actually believe that you could make the Packers a better franchise than Ted Thompson can.

Does this solve the mystery as to why you get ignored and/or ridiculed?

 

[Southpaw]

Congrats. Are you the CEO of a fortune 500 company? No? Then you are a complete and utter failure. You should immediately start doing something different in your life. At least that is the standard you hold TT to.

I think you're missing the point.

Where you also complaining after the Superbowl that TT sucked? Maybe it is a little silly that so many posters (not you) have just signed up or have not posted in years and suddenly they are back to remind us that they were right all along and TT sucks. We need a new term - they are not 'fair weather fans', just the opposite. "Fowl weather anti-fans" maybe?

Obviously not. When you are on top and there is no other hierarchy to achieve, then what reason is there to complain? Maybe you could point out things we could have done better, but no there isn't reason to complain.

Am I living in the past? Hell, we just won a game - why are you complaining? You're not living in the past regarding those losses back in November, are you? Do you judge Rodgers by his career and what he has done overall? Or the next time he throws and bad pass are you going to yell at your TV and tell the world how much AR sucks? Hell, he threw a bad pass therefore he sucks - no sense living in the past.

Read previous comment. Winning a regular season game is like saying I passed a checkpoint in a race. It's not the finish line

Hmmmm, and you can't understand why your opinions are not respected? Maybe this is the area you can make changes in your life to become that fortune 500 CEO. Handle your discussions in a respectful and intelligent manner while keeping an open mind to possible new ideas.

I'm just calling a spade a spade. But yet, somehow it's cool for you to call me an ungrateful spoiled little kid. Pot meet Kettle.

This is only in your mind. Most posters take a realistic approach to our armchair GM duties. We don't jump in after the fact and criticize using the benfit of hindsight. Should TT have had a better option at backup QB? Yes! Can we ridicule him for not? Why? He didn't sign a veteran backup OT, C, LS, K, and CB either. There is only so much money to go around you just can't expect TT or any GM in the NFL to stock a complete roster with stellar backups.

Not really hindsight. At least not on my part. I was pretty vocal about our lack of a suitable backup well before the season even started. Then when we finally went out and signed Matt Flynn we waited like 2-3 more weeks before we started him. TT does make attempts to address the issues we have, but it seems like he takes his time doing it.

 

[adambr2]

A lot of scouts actually had Seneca Wallace in their top 10 backup QB's going into this year. There seems to be a misconception that most teams have a quality backup option. Most don't. Shaun Hill is a good backup in Detroit. Ryan Fitzpatrick in Tennessee, Matt Moore in Miami...that's really your "bar" for top backup QB's.

We never really got to see how it would have unfolded had Wallace been the guy this entire time. Given that we actually lost our top 2 QB's, not just Rodgers, we had to resort to our practice squad and a 3rd string QB. You can't really "plan" to have to go to a 3rd and 4th option at QB. You just have to hope it doesn't happen. Unfortunately this year, it did. What should we have done differently that would have positively changed our QB situation?