Fire Capers

[longtimefan]

3rd downs.....4 for 13

Tell me that offense played good ?

 

[PFanCan]

So modify it how

explain

That info is between Mark Murphy and myself. Hope he listens to me. If I post it here, Viking lurkers will pass the intel on.

 

[Rodgers in the House]

The offense stank in the second half because MM does not know how to go for the jugular and start killing teams. He never gets mad and plays too conservatively. That's why we lose. There is no fire in this team whatsoever this year. We should've easily put up another 21 in the second half and called it a day. I'm tired of this classy good guy crap when your face is constantly being punched in. Gets you nowhere.

 

[mradtke66]

I think our offense laid an egg for one reason: Benson.

This year, it appears we go as he goes. I only have guesses why the offense is getting it done, but running with Benson is helping us. A lot. When he got hurt, the Colt's defense got comfortable and we ended up in trouble.

As far as my guesses on the offense, it's either the loss of Philbin or the loss of Wells/addition of Saturday.

I really think Saturday is hitting an unfortunate combination of details. He's a little small and he's getting old. He beat small with smart previously, but he's new to our scheme and can't fall back on smart. The line is otherwise intact and yet they appear to be playing worse than last year.

Even more confusing, is last year's weak link, Newhouse, has played pretty well and Bulaga has laid a couple of eggs.

 

[13 Times Champs]

The Colts went into the game with less talent and an OL that was mangled and got more mangled. No excuses.

 

[longtimefan]

I really think Saturday is hitting an unfortunate combination of details. He's a little small and he's getting old. He beat small with smart previously, but he's new to our scheme and can't fall back on smart. The line is otherwise intact and yet they appear to be playing worse than last year.

Staring with the 2nd half of Seattle the Pack didnt really give up any sacks...

1st half today no sacks..2nd half all went to hell

About 8 quart/ 2 full games Saturday no issues..but in one half Saturday had all these issues?

 

[mradtke66]

Staring with the 2nd half of Seattle the Pack didnt really give up any sacks...

1st half today no sacks..2nd half all went to hell

About 8 quart/ 2 full games Saturday no issues..but in one half Saturday had all these issues?

You're missing a key part of my argument--the running game.

Right now, the offense is dependent on Benson. Those 8 quarters featured his runs. He kept the chains moving and shook defenses out of a 2-deep shell. Losing him today was probably the difference.

This dependence on Benson is why I start looking at Saturday. It was the norm last season to offense to do pretty much whatever they wanted throwing the ball even lacking the running game. Obvious exceptions the Chiefs and Giants.

This year, we just can't. What changed? Philbin is probably part of it, but we're giving up more pressure this year with 4 out of the 5 same starters on the line. Bulaga in particular is much worse. Why? Worse communication? Possible. Sitton having to help Saturday more, leaving Bulaga without help? Possible. In my mind, a lot of that kind of blame falls on the center. Of course, Bulaga could have an injury or something, but he went from possibly the best right tackle in football last year to possibly the worst this year. Something is going on there.

Losing Wells hurt. I'm not saying we should have kept him, we might not have been able to match his requirements. He might have just wanted out because of losing his spot to Spitz in 2008(?). We had to scramble to replace him. I figured Saturday would get us through a season and we'd draft the center of the future in 2013. I'm not sure he make it through the season after watching him so far. Not that EDS would be better, but there isn't improvement, was choice do they have?

 

[longtimefan]

You're missing a key part of my argument--the running game.

Right now, the offense is dependent on Benson. Those 8 quarters featured his runs. He kept the chains moving and shook defenses out of a 2-deep shell. Losing him today was probably the difference.

This dependence on Benson is why I start looking at Saturday. It was the norm last season to offense to do pretty much whatever they wanted throwing the ball even lacking the running game. Obvious exceptions the Chiefs and Giants.

This year, we just can't. What changed? Philbin is probably part of it, but we're giving up more pressure this year with 4 out of the 5 same starters on the line. Bulaga in particular is much worse. Why? Worse communication? Possible. Sitton having to help Saturday more, leaving Bulaga without help? Possible. In my mind, a lot of that kind of blame falls on the center. Of course, Bulaga could have an injury or something, but he went from possibly the best right tackle in football last year to possibly the worst this year. Something is going on there.

Losing Wells hurt. I'm not saying we should have kept him, we might not have been able to match his requirements. He might have just wanted out because of losing his spot to Spitz in 2008(?). We had to scramble to replace him. I figured Saturday would get us through a season and we'd draft the center of the future in 2013. I'm not sure he make it through the season after watching him so far. Not that EDS would be better, but there isn't improvement, was choice do they have?

your key point was never mentioned

But I do agree with Benson they seem to be a lot better

 

[longtimefan]

=

If off has more then 3 and outs in 2nd half, might be that the d isnt on field as so much

On empty

Capers admitted that his team might have run out of gas in the fourth quarter given all the plays the Colts ran.
In a game that lasted 3 hours 38 minutes, Indianapolis ran an astounding 89 plays on offense. That's almost 30 plays above the league average heading into Week 4.
"Up front, we had B.J. go down after very few plays early," Capers said. "So you're talking about a guy like Mike Neal who was out there for the first time. He played more probably than what we anticipated."

 

[HyponGrey]

Still no answer to who we replace Capers with. Quite frankly, until we have the next guy lined up, this thread is pointless. Do we switch from 3-4 to 4-3? Depends on who we replace Capers with. Anybody have ANY ideas on who to hire in Capers' stead? Trgovac is the obvious choice, Moss as AHC theoretically would be next in line, but I think Perry deserves the shot. BTW if we go back to 4-3, kiss Greene goodbye.

I'm willing to give Capers til the end of the year before forcing him into retirement.

 

[HyponGrey]

The entire team is in disarray right now. The coaches are not calling to snuff, and the players are also struggling to execute. The philosophy among the coaches seems to be the same as the one propogated by one Ketchman: if you have good players, it doesn't matter what you call. Offense can't sustain a drive to get the ball rolling, defense gets tired because it's always on the field. As for me, I'll take the injury cop out for now, Raji out makes our D one dimensional, Benson out makes our O one dimensional, we got Indy at a bad time, wave of emotion. I now am forced to face the reality of last season, a veteran offense playing against defenses filled with rookies who had no offseason. I guess the consensus is "Let's just not have a DC and let the players do whatever they want! or My hamster's would make a better DC!" I give Capers til the end of the year, heck, it may just be an off year, but until I have new staff lined up, I make no cuts.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

This thread feels eerily familiar.

Here I was thinking he was a good defensive co-ordinator but terrible head coach.

 

[TJV]

IMO if McCarthy fired Capers – which is not going to happen in-season – his next move would have to be firing the OC and by that I don’t mean Clements: I mean McCarthy himself, who is the de facto OC. And of course that’s not going to happen either but in my view the offense has been more responsible for the team’s struggles than the defense. And regarding the offense, the rushing stats from last year to this are similar to this (attempts and average per) but Rodgers’ passer rating has dropped almost 20% from 122.6 to 99.3. Passer rating isn’t the end-all, be-all passing stat and the drop isn’t all on Rodgers but it indicates to me which part of the offense is more responsible for the lack of consistency we’ve seen.

As an aside, I don’t believe a fan, HC, or even GM has to have a replacement picked and ready to take over for it to make sense to fire someone on the staff. For example, when Ron Wolf took over as GM he quickly determined that the “country club” atmosphere Infante and his staff allowed on a crap team required his firing. At that moment he probably had Holmgren or others (Parcells?) in mind as a replacement but if neither ended up being available (another team could have thrown a lot more money at Holmgren, for example), it still made sense to fire Infante. Having said that, this does not apply in-season. In-season you HAVE to have a replacement ready immediately and you don’t have weeks to get an outsider up to speed. So it would have to be a defensive assistant. Which unit of the D (DL, LB, DB) has shown such outstanding coaching as to warrant the promotion of one of the assistants? So IMO this thread title as applied to an in-season change at DC is as irrelevant as the thread suggesting a Finley/Johnson trade.

I’ve suggested a change to the offensive game plan going forward because I think McCarthy has to attempt to make Rodgers more comfortable in an effort to get him back to his pin-point accuracy of last year. But for those who harshly criticize McCarthy’s schemes consider this: Every time an open receiver drops the ball and every time an open receiver is under- or over-thrown, the members of the staff who prepared the game plan and the play caller did their jobs. The same goes for Capers when a receiver is doubled and still makes the catch. And I don’t think fan criticism of Capers sending “all out” blitzes a certain number of times is justified because in hindsight they didn’t work. Had he not done so other fans and perhaps the same fans – with perfect hindsight - would have criticized the lack of all out blitzes.

The offense stank in the second half because MM does not know how to go for the jugular and start killing teams. He never gets mad and plays too conservatively. That's why we lose.

Thank goodness McCarthy doesn’t “get mad”; coaching with excessive emotion is at best short-lived and generally foolish: Much better to coach with one’s brain. And of course this is the same coach whose team beat opponents on average by 12.6 points/game last season. Saying he doesn’t know how to go for the jugular is directly contradicted by the 2011 season. For example, on the opening drive of the second half against the Colts on third down McCarthy’s play call wasn’t too conservative. According to Rodgers that pass for a first down got (barely) tipped. That wasn’t a conservative call, it just didn’t work out.

 

[12theTruth]

I'd fire Capers based largely on the crap defense that he coordinated last year. They have gotten a little better this year with more pressure on QB. What the Packers fail at greatly at defense is getting individually beaten by their counterparts on the other side. Shedding blocks, out hustling the opponent, etc. Outside of harrassing Cutler for a full game and containing Luck for about a half, the defense has struggled to turn the ball over, struggled to contain the edge on running plays, etc when looked at over an entire 5 game basis.

Woodson is in decline, Hawk is a liability in coverage, and the defensive line disappears for entire series. Those are some big obstacles to overcome for Dom. But if they fail to make the playoffs, Dom deserves to be removed along with hopefully Van Pelt and either the zone blocking scheme or Campen (take your pick).

 

[Forget Favre]

24 points???
WTF!!????
That's still not GOOD ENOUGH!
It should have been 0, nada, nothing, zero!!!!
You get me???
One point is too many!
Yeah, throw the bum Dom Capers out on his ear!

 

[CHIpackFAN]

IF capers gets fired, who do you want as next DC or who wold you like to see take over?

 

[packerfan4ever]

Not that he would leave the Steelers but Labau sorry I know I spelled his name wrong.

 

[longtimefan]

another fire capers thread?

 

[longtimefan]

http://www.packerforum.com/threads/fire-capers.38888/


merged

 

[ivo610]

Colts 6-3

Packers lead league in sacks, and most likely will lead league in missing starters by the end of the season.

 

[Kitten]

Yet another example of how this season differs from the last. I have very little problems this year with Capers or our defense. As previous posters have pointed out, it is our offense that has struggled not our defense or it has not struggled as much as the offense. Our D has key injuries and has still managed to push past them and win games for us. I think our D is the last thing we should be complaining about, instead we should be singing their praises. I think they are the biggest reason why we have a winning record right now and have hopes of being around for the playoffs when our offense kicks it into gear.

 

[TJV]

This is from the latest article posted in the Packers.com News forum:

Through nine weeks of the 2011 season, the Packers defense was No. 30 overall. It was eighth against the run, 31st against the pass and 17th in the league in sacks. Through nine weeks of this season, the Packers defense is 12th overall. It’s 10th against the run, 20th against the pass and No. 1 in the league in sacks.

Analysis—The improvement on defense is dramatic. A year ago, the Packers were on their way to becoming the worst overall defense with the worst pass defense and fewest sacks per pass play in the league. A year later, the Packers are on the verge of becoming a top 10 defense, again, or better. It’s a unit that’s making big plays with young players, and injuries are forcing it to build and reveal depth. Injuries, of course, are the big concern. The Packers may have reached the saturation point, especially at linebacker.

In 2009, the Packers’ D was 7th in the league surrendering an average of 18.6 ppg. In 2010 the Packers D was 2nd at 15.0 ppg. In 2011, they were 19th at 22.4 ppg. So far this season Capers’ D is 11th surrendering 20.8 ppg. That averages out to 19.0 ppg over the span of Capers’ time in Green Bay and that usually puts a defense in the top 10. For fans who would fire him based upon one season out of three, what if Capers’ D ends up in the top 10 in scoring D again this season? That would be 3 seasons out of 4 in the top 10 in scoring D. At that point last year's D would look a lot more like an aberration in Capers stay in Green Bay, wouldn’t it?

 

[DevilDon]

This is from the latest article posted in the Packers.com News forum:
In 2009, the Packers’ D was 7th in the league surrendering an average of 18.6 ppg. In 2010 the Packers D was 2nd at 15.0 ppg. In 2011, they were 19th at 22.4 ppg. So far this season Capers’ D is 11th surrendering 20.8 ppg. That averages out to 19.0 ppg over the span of Capers’ time in Green Bay and that usually puts a defense in the top 10. For fans who would fire him based upon one season out of three, what if Capers’ D ends up in the top 10 in scoring D again this season? That would be 3 seasons out of 4 in the top 10 in scoring D. At that point last year's D would look a lot more like an aberration in Capers stay in Green Bay, wouldn’t it?

I don't often use stats but when I do I use yours ThxJack.
This entire post is just nuts! I think fans at times are terminally unsatisfied. Fire Capers? Wow!

 

[milani]

Despite the fact that we faced an anemic offense in Arizona last week you have to hand it to the defense for doing what they did with what they had on the field especially with Matthews out in the 2nd half. We were stocked with rookies and 2nd year players out there. Take away that controversial INT call in the first half and the score is much more lopsided.

 

[FrankRizzo]

All I Want is for our defense to pitch one shutout a season. I Thought we had a chance with home games vs Jacksonville (missing MJD) and Arisona (who almost got shut out by SF at home the week prior).

But bottom line in this business is the W or L. We got 2 W's.

Capers is nowhere near ****y LeBeau as a DC, but he's still pretty good.