Favre and rebuilding Packers just aren't working

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zero2Cool

I own a website
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
11,903
Reaction score
4
Location
Green Bay, WI
[align=center]
You must be logged in to see this image or video!
[/align]
Posted: Thursday September 21, 2006 12:40PM; Updated: Thursday September 21, 2006 1:37PM




When I showed up for my first day of work as a newly hired scrub on the 49ers beat, the first thing I learned was that Ronnie Lott hadn't. The greatest defensive player in franchise history skipped the first day of a mandatory minicamp in June 1989 to stick up for his friends.

Management had slashed the base salaries of San Francisco veterans Eric Wright and Keena Turner, and when Lott showed up at the team's training facility the next day, he was visibly pissed. When he emerged from the locker room long after practice and saw me -- a recent college graduate who'd just been hired by a now-defunct newspaper to cover the defending champions -- for some weird reason, he unloaded.

"These men have given everything to this organization," he explained, "and yet the second the people in charge think they can get away with it, they screw 'em over. And before too long, they'll do the same thing to me."

I looked at him dubiously, and then my heart began to race. Joe Montana -- the Joe Montana -- was now standing next to us, nodding. I'd barely met the man, but he must have sensed my youthful naivety, because the first words he said were, "And sooner or later, they'll f--- me, too."

"Yeah, right," I blurted out. Had Montana gone insane? Already, he was a legend, a magician whose dramatic feats had transformed a franchise and, indeed, an entire city's self-image. Before Joe, San Francisco's teams were lovable, wacky ensembles that would inevitably choke in the clutch; with him, the city had become the sporting capital of unencumbered cool. Surely, more than any star player with any pro franchise, he would be allowed to leave on his own terms.

Less than four years later, Montana was traded to the Kansas City Chiefs, and his initial lesson to a rookie reporter had been driven home: In the NFL, eventually, everyone gets whacked.

Sadly, for Brett Favre, that moment is fast approaching. Or, at the very least, it should be.

Oh, sure, I know the rules are supposed to be different in Green Bay, where the local time is always 1996, and Favre is still that bodacious gunslinger who put the title back in Titletown. Though that was Favre's only Super Bowl championship, it is nearly impossible to discuss this quarterback with a Packers fan without eliciting an emotionally charged response.

Taking in that blind devotion is one of the cool things about covering football in Green Bay, and Favre is wholly deserving of his beloved status; not to mention, he's also one of my favorite players to write about or interview. But there comes a time when logic must prevail, and I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the hour is upon us.

The Packers are a rebuilding team, and it's already clear they're going nowhere in 2006. They opened the season with consecutive home defeats, getting destroyed by the Bears in the opener and then losing a close game to the Saints.

Some believe that seven-point defeat to New Orleans constituted progress; to me, it only added to the indignity. Remember when the Packers were a virtual lock to win at Lambeau Field? They've lost nine of their last 12 games there, and their fans may soon be the ones contemplating a Lambeau Leap.


Sure, it's possible Favre and the Pack could come charging back, beginning on Sunday at Detroit, and give us a storybook Super Bowl run. It's also possible that Mad About You will return to the airwaves as a top-10 sitcom.

More realistic is the notion that Green Bay is at least a year away from being decent, and letting Favre stick around is stunting the team's long-term potential.

It's not as if any of this is surprising. Coming off a miserable 4-12 campaign that triggered regime change -- first-time general manager Ted Thompson, who'd been hired the previous year, bringing in first-time coach Mike McCarthy -- the franchise did virtually nothing to shore up its short-term prospects this past offseason. The Packers could have tried to load up on impact players to give Favre a final shot at glory; instead, they traded their best wide receiver (Javon Walker) and acquired no one of his caliber as a replacement.

As one former Packers player said recently, "It was pretty easy to tell the direction it was going."

It seemed to me that Thompson either assumed Favre would retire, or that he was trying to send the quarterback a message that doing so would be the wisest decision. But Favre returned and, predictably, has struggled while running an offense still reeling from the free-agent departures of guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera following the '04 season. What once was the league's most formidable offensive line now features three rookies fighting for time at the two guard spots and is struggling to open holes for fading halfback Ahman Green.

At this point, any reasonable coach or GM would conclude that the smart move is to take a look at second-year quarterback Aaron Rodgers, whom Thompson picked in the first round of the '05 draft. Rodgers looked somewhat shaky during his rookie training camp, but he seemed to make huge strides this summer and had a promising preseason debut before leveling off.

In other words, even though Thompson referred to Rodgers as Favre's successor in a meeting with Packers shareholders this past July, the team still doesn't know if the kid can play. And with the possibility of a high pick in the '07 draft looming, and enticing talents like Notre Dame's Brady Quinn and Michigan State's Drew Stanton in play, Thompson and McCarthy desperately need some empirical evidence.

So, why haven't they made the move? Perhaps Favre's close relationship with McCarthy, who was once his quarterbacks coach, is a factor. Maybe McCarthy and Thompson honestly believe their youthful team will grow as the season progresses and mount a charge toward the playoffs.

The biggest reason, I believe, is that they're simply scared to mess with a legend.

I discussed this situation with a person who is extremely plugged into the Packers' organization, and he likened it to "one of those mismatched couples that stay together even though they don't really want to be in the relationship. But neither one wants to be the bad guy and end it, so on it goes."

Whatever he says publicly, I have to believe that Favre, as a competitor, would rather play for, say, the Redskins or Buccaneers than he would for this year's Packers. One thing I know he will never do is stick around Green Bay and back up Rodgers, toward whom he has been frostier than the Lambeau tundra in mid-December. Perhaps that's what's holding up McCarthy: He knows that once he sends Rodgers into a game --or, to clarify, into a game whose outcome is still in doubt -- there is no turning back.

Let's say that moment arrives in the third quarter of Sunday's game in Detroit: Picture the Packers flailing on offense and needing a spark, and the coach going with his gut and sending in the kid. From that point on, however Rodgers performed, things would play out quickly. Within two days Favre would likely either announce his retirement or be squarely on the trading block. And if he chose not to quit, you can bet your lucky Cheesehead that Al Davis, Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones and the Glazer boys would at least pick up the phone, Favre's recent struggles notwithstanding.

Strangely enough, you might then see an in-season bidding war for a soon-to-be-37-year-old passer with a $7 million base salary who threw 29 interceptions in 2005. And if this scenario were to play out after the Oct. 17 trade deadline -- possibly because salary-cap considerations might sidetrack a potential deal -- Favre could be subject to a waiver claim or immediate free agency, which would make things mighty interesting in a bunch of NFL cities.

Might Terrell Owens get his wish and find himself catching Favre's passes? Would Favre push aside his former backup, Mark Brunell, and try to revive the Redskins' potentially dangerous attack?

It sounds like sacrilege, but it sure wouldn't be unprecedented. Johnny Unitas had that sad season in San Diego. Broadway Joe became Sunset (Strip) Joe before hobbling off into it. Dan Marino, after being forced out of Miami, seriously considered signing with the Steelers before deciding to quit.

And, of course, the greatest legend of all played his final three seasons with an arrowhead on his helmet. I covered Montana's first game as a Chief (in Tampa, to open the '93 regular season) and his last (a first-round playoff defeat to Marino and Miami in '95), and a few in between, and seeing him in that uniform always felt a little weird.

I got over it, though. Sooner or later, everyone has to.
 

calicheesehead

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
742
Reaction score
0
Location
91214
Trade AR. End the controversy. We also had Brooks,Warner,Hasselbeck,Brunell, and every other QB under Favre to be his successor. He'll play one more year, get a rookie then, trade AR for Picks, and give him a proper exit instead of having to read everyone's version of the same answer with Favre.
 

Philtration

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3
Location
Chicago
calicheesehead said:
Trade AR. End the controversy. We also had Brooks,Warner,Hasselbeck,Brunell, and every other QB under Favre to be his successor. He'll play one more year, get a rookie then, trade AR for Picks, and give him a proper exit instead of having to read everyone's version of the same answer with Favre.

I read that several times..... hell, I just read it again as I typed this and it made no sense at all. :shock:
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
This is sad and if it comes true it will perhaps be one of the darkest days in Packer history. Brett has gave us so much, and if he doesn't retire a GB Packer I would be disappointed.


What I don't understand is the rush to get A-Rod in. This team under our current management seems YEARS and YEARS away from making any sort of SB run. If GB is gearing up for a run in two years they better hope the stars align just right. The youth in ALL positions would have to pan out. That just doesn't happen. Guys will succeed and guys will fail. Unfortunately for GB we have youth at EVERY position and the chances of them all panning out at the same learning curve is highly unlikely.


I have given up on this team. Not the individual players but the management. We will not, and I repeat WILL NOT, make any sort of noise with the GM that we have now. If I am wrong feel free to rub it in my face, but I just see years of struggling ahead.

Brett was given a raw deal IMO. TT wasn't man enough to be straight with Brett. For that I don't even care if the Packers win a damn game or not. I care that Brett gets his records and retires a Packer even if it is on an 0-16 note.


It's not jumping off the bandwagon as I will still be a Packer fan. I've been one as long as I can remember. I just see this season as a complete waste. I'm not excited about the guys we have outside of a few. To me these won't be the guys to get us back to contention so excuse me if I don't get excited over Brady Poppinga or Tyrone Culver, Jason Spitz, Abdul Hodge, Marviel Underwood, etc. These guys IMO are going to be lucky to Peak at average. Maybe one or two will become solid starters but more likely than not these guys will slip into NFL obscurity with names like Brent Fullwood, Perry Kemp, PaulOtt Carruth, Tiger Greene, etc.


Let Brett play, hell let him throw 40 interceptions, whats it going to hurt? When he doesn't throw INT's we still get our ***** kicked. He to me is not holding this team back from moving on because we have nowhere to go anytime soon.

I have put the Packers aside for this year and am enjoying Brett's final hoorah. I'm taking it in with the realization that I may never see another player of his calibur in a GB uniform again. As painful as it his to see Brett go out like he is, he can't make-up for the mismanagement or the untimely rebuilding of this franchise, so his records are about the only positive that can come out of this year. If that makes me less of a fan, so be it.


I'm preparing for the days of old with no glimmers of brightness in the near future. I know the glory days are over and you can't be on top every year. Apparently some think this team needs to rebuild and I agree. This team does need rebuilding........from the top down.
 

WinnipegPackFan

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
1,943
Reaction score
0
First, excellent piece Z2C,

That being said, I agree with Pyle on a few things here but I am too pissed with our organization at the moment to go on or I may say something I will regret in the future. We ( Green Bay ) better make his final year or years here worth him staying for though. That's all I have to say !!!
 

Buckeyepackfan

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
804
Reaction score
0
Location
Lima, Ohio
Why put A-Rod in behind an O-line that can't protect him? The only thing it will do is get him killed.

How many young Qb's(or other players) have never reached their potential because they were thrown to the wolves, being forced to play before they were ready or before they could be protected properly?

TT got this all wrong, he seemed to forget that a dominant O-line is the first key to a dominant offense.
 

Philtration

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3
Location
Chicago
Buckeyepackfan said:
Why put A-Rod in behind an O-line that can't protect him? The only thing it will do is get him killed.

How many young Qb's(or other players) have never reached their potential because they were thrown to the wolves, being forced to play before they were ready or before they could be protected properly?

TT got this all wrong, he seemed to forget that a dominant O-line is the first key to a dominant offense.

John Elway rookie season - 11 games
Dan Marino rookie season- 11 games
Troy Aikman rookie season – 11 games
Peyton Manning rookie season – 16 games
Eli Manning rookie season – 9 games
Carson Palmer rookie season – 14 games
Donovan McNabb rookie season – 12 games
Byron Leftwich rookie season – 15 games
Ben Roethlisberger rookie season – 14 games
Terry Bradshaw rookie season – 13 games
Fran Tarkenton rookie season - 14 games
Dan Fouts rookie season - 10 games
Bart Starr rookie season - 9 games
Joe Montana rookie season - 16 games
Joe Namath rookie season - 13 games
Johnny Unitas rookie season - 12 games
Joe Theismann rookie season - 9 games

Hell, even Kyle Orton played in 15 games in his rookie season.
Now name me a few QBs who could have been great or even just very good but were ruined because they actually played the game before they turned 25.
 

4packgirl

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
2,413
Reaction score
0
Location
illinois
philbert - you just don't GET it do you?? rodgers is back-up to FAVRE, for cripes sakes, who is in his last season with the team he has been loyal to for 15 seasons!! you can post stats outta your *** but until you find a situation that exactly matches the one that GB is in right now - don't bother!

reading that article made me want to throw up & cry all at the same time. yes, i'm THAT emotional, at times, about this team & brett favre. part of me says let him go & have success elsewhere - the other part of me says keep him here & let the chips fall where they may this season.

either way, the organization really forked this whole situation up because they didn't have the balls to tell favre they'd really rather not have him on the team this season. i know that all signs pointed towards that with the signings they made & didn't make BUT think about it...favre is at the end of an amazing career but isn't quite ready to end it - even though everything is pointing toward this team rebuilding - he's got TT telling him they are NOT rebuilding - he takes a leap of faith & decides to stick around for another season. partially his fault (because he loves the game) but MOSTLY the managements fault!!

i know i shouldn't feel sorry for him because he's made millions but the people who use that logic don't really understand favre. he'd STILL play for the packers even if he wasn't making millions - the man LOVES the game!!
 
OP
OP
Zero2Cool

Zero2Cool

I own a website
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
11,903
Reaction score
4
Location
Green Bay, WI
This guy implies Brett is cold towards Aaron.
You must be logged in to see this image or video!


Yeah...
 

DePack

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,904
Reaction score
1
Location
Newark, Delaware
Waste of time and ink.

The only reason some a-hole like this would even right such a non-informed article is because it is about Brett Favre and everybody wants a piece of Brett. Hell that's why guys like Phil post here.
 
OP
OP
Zero2Cool

Zero2Cool

I own a website
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
11,903
Reaction score
4
Location
Green Bay, WI
DePack said:
Waste of time and ink.

The only reason some a-hole like this would even right such a non-informed article is because it is about Brett Favre and everybody wants a piece of Brett. Hell that's why guys like Phil post here.

Haha, perfect post.
 

DePack

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,904
Reaction score
1
Location
Newark, Delaware
Zero2Cool said:
DePack said:
Waste of time and ink.

The only reason some a-hole like this would even right such a non-informed article is because it is about Brett Favre and everybody wants a piece of Brett. Hell that's why guys like Phil post here.

Haha, perfect post.

Except I typed "right" instead of "write". :oops:
 

calicheesehead

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
742
Reaction score
0
Location
91214
How many rookies are on our team now? From the OL to WR to new RB, on D we have new LB, DB, etc...For a team to get experienced we need to have some success for repition sake. With Favre in the game, the offense does move. This gives experience to the OL, the RB's the WR. It also keeps the D off the field for a breather. If AR was in, we'd go 3 and out and bring the D in without much rest at all. A tired D doesn't gel, they get hurt. #and out on O is not going to give the neccessary repition to gain experience.
Bottom line: Favre helps rebuild this team and get more rookies and 1st year players a better chance to gain experience and team chemistry.
With AR, the O players will not get as much on the job experience and the D will more than likely get hurt from being on the field way too long.
 

majikman

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Messages
255
Reaction score
0
From the article
It seemed to me that Thompson either assumed Favre would retire, or that he was trying to send the quarterback a message that doing so would be the wisest decision. But Favre returned and, predictably, has struggled while running an offense still reeling from the free-agent departures of guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera following the '04 season. What once was the league's most formidable offensive line now features three rookies fighting for time at the two guard spots and is struggling to open holes for fading halfback Ahman Green.

Zero..why are you posting conspiracy theories here about TT?

Do you really believe this article, or are you posting it to be provocative and get a rise out of people on this forum? I happen to agree with alot of the article, especially the part about TT (yet, I get accused of spouting conspiracies), but not the part about replacing Favre with Rodgers. Hell, Steve Young sat behind Montana for years and it didn't hurt him. So there you have it.

To me, I think TT has placed all of his eggs in Aaron Rodgers easter basket, and he wants to get him on the field now, but doesn't know how to. I've actually come to the same realization that Brett has been screwed and should go elsewhere to compete because he's not going to get any help by TT any time soon.

But the bottom line is, Brett Favre should go out on his own terms, not benched by a rookie head coach to see if the GM's mancrush on Aaron Rodgers is going to pan out or not.

Zero..i heard that Favre punched Rodgers in the face a minute after that picture was snapped. You sure you want to go posting pictures like that? LOL. It might perpetuate the hatred.
 

umair

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
923
Reaction score
0
Location
chicago
favre is not going to get benched any time this season, so their is no use talking about that.

if tt wanted favre to leave he should have told him. i agree wit you guys that fave is helping this team rebuild. we need some expirence on this team.
 

Packnic

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
2,454
Reaction score
6
Location
Salisbury, NC
what hatred.

anyway. there is absolutely no evidence that TT wants Brett Favre out of there so he can start his draft pick A-rod.

Ive seen no evidence that TT even likes A-rod that much.

The only evidence i see at all is the countless quotes from TT, MM and Favre that Favre can play as long as he likes and hes not hurting the team at all. And that as long as Favre wants to stay, he will start.


without evidence its just conspiracy theories. You cant just go around making up personal conflict like its a real thing. You cant just say hey i bet TT loves A-rod so much and Hates brett favre so much that hes trying to replace him. its stupid highschool gossip and its bush.

all you can do is go by actions, and what comes directly from the horses mouth. and so far the only evidence you have is killing your arguments.
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
Packnic said:
anyway. there is absolutely no evidence that TT wants Brett Favre out of there so he can start his draft pick A-rod.


Exhibit A - Letting Wahle Go
Exhibit B - Starting 2 Rookie Guards
Exhibit C - Not trying to sign a FA experienced Guard
Exhibit D - Failing to get Brett another experienced WR
Exhibit E - Messing with the backfield post week 1 where Green had 110yds
Exhibit F - Bringing in a rookie head coach who can't adjust on the fly


I'm sorry but there is more evidence that TT is rebuilding than trying to field a contender for a playoff run.
 

Cdnfavrefan

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
0
Location
the unknown province
Exhibit A - Letting Wahle Go
Exhibit B - Starting 2 Rookie Guards
Exhibit C - Not trying to sign a FA experienced Guard
Exhibit D - Failing to get Brett another experienced WR
Exhibit E - Messing with the backfield post week 1 where Green had 110yds
Exhibit F - Bringing in a rookie head coach who can't adjust on the fly

Haha Pyle should be starring in CSI GreenBay. And don't provoke him cause there is more evidence. I'm not sure if I'd say TT wanted Favre gone or if it's just that he wasn't willing to do anything extra to put him in a place to succeed
 
OP
OP
Zero2Cool

Zero2Cool

I own a website
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
11,903
Reaction score
4
Location
Green Bay, WI
Cdnfavrefan, there are many ways to disgrace a tv program, that however was one of the worst.

In defense of CSI, they view ALL scenarios possible. Something the disgrace does not care to disclose in their posts.
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
Zero2Cool said:
Cdnfavrefan, there are many ways to disgrace a tv program, that however was one of the worst.

In defense of CSI, they view ALL scenarios possible. Something the disgrace does not care to disclose in their posts.


Yep, way to insult instead of argue Zero, could you please put together the OTHER side of the scenario for me?
 

Packnic

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
2,454
Reaction score
6
Location
Salisbury, NC
pyledriver80 said:
Packnic said:
anyway. there is absolutely no evidence that TT wants Brett Favre out of there so he can start his draft pick A-rod.


Exhibit A - Letting Wahle Go
Exhibit B - Starting 2 Rookie Guards
Exhibit C - Not trying to sign a FA experienced Guard
Exhibit D - Failing to get Brett another experienced WR
Exhibit E - Messing with the backfield post week 1 where Green had 110yds
Exhibit F - Bringing in a rookie head coach who can't adjust on the fly


I'm sorry but there is more evidence that TT is rebuilding than trying to field a contender for a playoff run.

How does any of that mean, "Hey Brett, i want you outta here"

Hes making decisions based on the Green Bay Packers. Not Brett Favre.

He wants Brett to play until he is 49 years old if he still can do it. But he isnt. and TT isnt going to make his ultimate Franchise decisions based on a guy who is gonna play one more year max. Thats silly and would ultimately hurt the Green Bay Packers for years to come.

So the decisions hes making might not be ideal for a fiscally damaging futile attempt at a playoff run. but they sure do make us better for the long haul.
 

Cdnfavrefan

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,624
Reaction score
0
Location
the unknown province
Well I wouldn't go so far as to use the word SURE. It remains to be seen if these moves will prove prosperous or a complete waste of present and future seasons
 

pyledriver80

Cheesehead
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,391
Reaction score
0
Packnic said:
pyledriver80 said:
Packnic said:
anyway. there is absolutely no evidence that TT wants Brett Favre out of there so he can start his draft pick A-rod.


Exhibit A - Letting Wahle Go
Exhibit B - Starting 2 Rookie Guards
Exhibit C - Not trying to sign a FA experienced Guard
Exhibit D - Failing to get Brett another experienced WR
Exhibit E - Messing with the backfield post week 1 where Green had 110yds
Exhibit F - Bringing in a rookie head coach who can't adjust on the fly


I'm sorry but there is more evidence that TT is rebuilding than trying to field a contender for a playoff run.

How does any of that mean, "Hey Brett, i want you outta here"

Hes making decisions based on the Green Bay Packers. Not Brett Favre.

He wants Brett to play until he is 49 years old if he still can do it. But he isnt. and TT isnt going to make his ultimate Franchise decisions based on a guy who is gonna play one more year max. Thats silly and would ultimately hurt the Green Bay Packers for years to come.

So the decisions hes making might not be ideal for a fiscally damaging futile attempt at a playoff run. but they sure do make us better for the long haul.



Oh so TT's just not concentating on winning anytime soon. I see now.

So why tell Brett he is not rebuilding?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Latest posts

Top