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Draft picks HAVE to have immediate impact

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Chicocheese
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    Chicocheese Cheesehead

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    I don't follow college football at all... I just can't stand it... but that being said we NEED to get an O-lineman and a safety for sure in rounds 1 & 2.
  2. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    On your own site you posted an article where he stated the exact words you claimed he didnt say
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  3. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Bruce Almighty, meaning Bruce Irvin?
    He was last year.
    And he went way earlier than anyone thought, and before our pick of Perry.

    I'm no Badger fan, but I love that Borland guy.
    He may be short, which hurts on passing plays over the top, but I think he's great against the run. Hard for the big ole OL to catch him with a square up block.

    I think he'd be so much of an upgrade over both of our starting ILBs
  4. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I have to see the free agents first......
    Personally, I am only interested in a possible FA safety, or perhaps ILB.
    There appear to be more safeties than ILBs who might be available and upgrades.
    I have my eye NOT on the top guy Jairus Byrd, but Malcolm Jenkins. Isn't he a coming free agent?

    I like getting former 1st round talents.... like San Fran got in Justin Smith, Donte Whitner, Carlos Rogers, I think Ahmad Brooks was not a 1st rounder but was obviously good.
    Laron Landry was another former 1st round talented safety signed by the Colts. Not huge dollars. I would love for something like him with Jenkins.

    But a cheaper, less talented one like a Bernard Pollard might work. Cheaper.
    We need some physicality all over, especially back there. Pollard is like that.
  5. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    He preferred a 4-3. He said it.
    Most people wouldn't have publicly said it.

    What's your problem with that this time????
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  6. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Not sure if this means he busts or not since he's a player, not an athlete. Either way I'm scared
  7. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Jenkins si, Pollard, Whitner, Landry no si. Then again, I don't care about physicality at the S position, that's the boys up front's job.
  8. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Maybe I am reading your quote wrong?? I have no issues with the article...where it was posted or not posted just what you said on page 2 of this thread..

    I interpret what you said on page two, to mean Nick never said BOTH

    A google search turned up your page saying he was okay with both

    Just not sure how you meant your statement on page two
  9. NelsonsLongCatch
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    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Yes and No.

    Jordy Nelson was able to come along slowly because there were established receivers in front of him. Donald Driver and Greg Jennings allowed for him to come along slowly.

    In regards to the last two years and fixing the defense, the players drafted had to make an immediate impact because there were no quality players in front of them or free-agents coming in.
  10. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Exactly.

    Tramon alluded to this today or yesterday, when he said the problem with youngsters is it takes them time to learn the defense, the scheme, etc.

    Teddy T banked on his youngsters, draft picks Morgan Burnett, Jerron McMillian, and MD Jennings, to be able to anchod the hole at the back of the D.
    They obviously crashed and burned, badly.

    Either Darren Perry coached em bad, or Teddy T simply overrated their skill, beit physical or mental, or a combination. But the results are in, and they are ugly. Failure.
    Not only are they the first group of safeties in memory to NOT PICK OFF A SINGLE PASS, they also are not good tacklers.

    You've all seen Burnett miss tackles. He also took a horrible angle on the play where Kaepernick ran for 50 on that last drive. Huge mistake. And he's the best of the group, and this was his 4th year already.

    Morgan Burnett Career Statistics
    GTklINTPDFF
    20104*12110
    2011161073112
    201216123252
    20131396050
    *Tore ACL in Week 4

    In all of Burnett's tackles this year, 96, good for 2nd on the team, he forced a total of zero fumbles in addition to his interception total of 0.

    "There are no dominant traits," an AFC personnel man told Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "He won't be a difference-maker, but he isn't going to hurt you, either."

    Well that's not entirely true as he took a bad angle helping on the touchdown pass to Vernon Davis Sunday night. See below:
    [​IMG]
    Nick Collins from a similar position would have at least broken it up, and possibly picked it off.

    Burnett, who was amazingly given a Collins-like extension last off-season, missed 11 combined tackles, which trailed only A.J. Hawk's 13, per Pro Football Focus.
    Opposing QB's targeted him 40 times, completing 29 for 414 yards and 4 touchdowns, and obviously 0 Ints.
    His passer rating-against was 135.8.
    That's much higher than Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers best MVP seasons.

    Again, PFF might not be 100% accurate, but you can tell by the results of our games that it was pretty close in grading Morgan.

    The scariest thing of all? Burnett is our BEST one.
    Well, unless Sean Richardson can stay healthy and show something.

    What about the other starter, MD Jennings? Remember they were hoping and expecting Jerron McMillian might be that other starter. He was bad enough they actually released him during the season. Unheard of for Ted Thompson, especially with a fairly high draft pick of his.

    Packers S M.D. Jennings, 2013 Season
    Totals
    Snaps855
    Tackles74
    Passes Defensed0
    INTs0
    Forced Fumbles0
    TD Passes Allowed5
    Passer Rating Against148.8
    Source: Pro Football Focus

    Here's much more about how horrific these safeties are/were.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1913962-fixing-the-green-bay-packers-defense-must-start-at-safety

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  11. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Since 2011, Teddy T has used 7 picks in the first 4 rounds of the NFL Draft on DEFENSE.

    They are, in order:
    Davon House in 2011;
    Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy, Casey Hayward, Mike Daniels and Jerron McMillian in 2012;
    Datone Jones in 2013.

    House, well, a lot of you wanted to throw him into a river this week. I think he's been okay, but thin, weak, passive.
    His contributions I would say are a 2 on a 0-10 scale.

    Perry, I give him overall a 3 out of 10.
    Worthy, a 0.
    Hayward, well a 9 last year, a 0 this year, so a 4.5 overall.
    Daniels, he gets a solid 8. Looks like the Cullen Jenkins hole, we planned on Jerel Worthy filling.
    McMillian, he gets more than Worthy even though Jerron has been cut. He at least made a few plays last year. 1.
    Datone, less time obviously, but again, rookies (1st rounders especially) do often have impact. I give Datone a 3 so far.

    So do the math on all these defensive precious DRAFT picks.

    By the way, All-Pro CB Richard Sherman was drafted in 2011, one full round after he took another CB, Davon House.
    Also, Sherman was taken 13 spots after Thompson selected Tight end D.J. Williams who has been released and 2 rounds after he took Alex Green. also since released),

    It didn't take Sherman long to make in impact. Same with Hayward.
    House, MD Jennings, McMillian, Worthy, Datone, Perry have not made the team any better.

    And when we have a GM who ignores free agency more than any other team in the NFL, by far (proven), then you have to do better than everyone else in the draft. And those 7 defensive picks since our Super Bowl run simply are below average.

    Like the outside jump shot, you live by the jumper, you die by the jumper.
    You live 100% from rookies and the draft, you die by it.

    Thompson needs to have an A+ draft this year. He needs to find a great one, or two. Hyde and Bakhtiari were good this year. Lacy was great.
    He need to find at least one great one on defense, either S or ILB.

    Because you all know he won't add a stud via Free Agency.
  12. easyk83
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    Well it does help against counter runs when your strong safety can actually contain that side of the line.
  13. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    The SS' job is similar to a Slot CB in that he's a shortfielder. If the boys up front do their jobs, then the run is stopped long before the SS gets close. Run support is the icing not the cake, ironically icing/run support are the reasons iced cake/SS are larger. Cover the TE Cover half the deep field.
  14. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    That VD TD was on Hawk, Burnett was doubling Boldin. It's why he broke late. Had he been assigned to double Davis that's an INT.

    [​IMG]
    BTW that's Bush that Boldin runs past from the slot. Notice how Burnett moves away from Davis at the snap.

    Burnett is also better than Richardson even if he shows something.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  15. Wood Chipper
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    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    I don't think it's the picks that is the problem as much as misusing the players. Need to take advantage of their strengths and cover up their weaknesses

    Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk
  16. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    On the one hand:
    On the other hand:
    On the one hand:
    On the other hand:
    and in response to a 9ers fan:
    So draft picks have to an immediate impact but they don’t have to blossom immediately. When your GM doesn’t use free agency, you HAVE TO HIT your top picks, but if the Packers and 9ers injury situations were reversed the Packers would have been an 8 point favorite in the playoff game. Maybe the rest of us should let frank settle this among himself.:D

    Thompson’s philosophy of team building does not require immediate help from rookies. It requires a steady stream of help from previous season’s rookies. That’s the crucial “develop” part of the draft and develop philosophy. As I posted in another thread, unless you define an immediate impact as being available on the bench in case a starter goes down, none of the draftees of 2010 helped immediately. The one draftee who looked like he could make an immediate impact, third rounder Burnett, started the first four games, got injured and was IR’d. Obviously not necessary for the title run. First rounder Bulaga made a great contribution but only ended up doing so because Tauscher started four games, got injured and was IR’d. Does anyone believe the Packers wouldn’t have won a title with a healthy Mark Tauscher at RT? Quarless played after Finley was IR’d and caught 21 passes and scored a TD in the regular season. CJ Wilson played but wasn’t a critical part of the DL. Mike Neal played in 2 games, injured his shoulder and was IR’d in week 7. Newhouse didn’t play (thank goodness). James Starks made a huge contribution, but without Ryan Grant’s injury on opening day, he would not have been necessary. IOW, if the Packers had the luck of being as healthy as some of this year’s playoff teams, there would have been no need for an immediate impact from any of the rookie class of 2010.

    BTW, there’s no point in incessantly whining about all of the Packers’ injuries. Packers fans know all too well about them and when interacting with fans of other teams you come off as a cry baby.

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