Donald Driver and the Jaguars.

[longtimefan]

Mooch used to be a Packers coach you know? dont think he was a Wisconsin native, but from Michigan

 

[ivo610]

Driver has zero chance to go to the hall of fame. The position is so back logged, on top of that driver was never an elite NFL WR. There are 17 WRs in the HOF right now who played in the NFL since the merger. They will be adding at least 4 to that list in the next decade most likely. Issac Bruce more than likely wont go in and he has excellent numbers along with the whole greatest show on turf claim.

Still my favorite packer tho. Doesn't make him any less likable in my eyes. You can still have a favorite player and not be a homer about it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's difficult comparing stats across eras, though Hutson's still stand up, especially if you break them down on a per-game-played basis. And when you measure him against his peers, the numbers are pretty staggering. He holds the following NFL records:

Most seasons leading league in pass receptions (8)
Most seasons leading league in pass receiving yards gained (7)
Most seasons leading league in pass receiving touchdowns (9)
Most seasons leading league in scoring (5)

He was also a 2-time league MVP.

Hutson played in the two-way era and was considered an outstanding safety. He was also the place kicker for several seasons.

But the reason Hutson will be on the NFL's 100 year anniversary team is the way he redefined his position and how the game is played. Hutson is widely attributed with inventing many of the modern pass routes you see today at a time when the game was three-yards-and-a-cloud-of dust. Hutson did for the WR position what Lawrence Taylor did for the OLB position, and then some, with his impact rippling though the history of the game to the current day.

In the final analysis, Driver will be considered an outstanding player but not quite NFL HOF worthy. His legacy will be considered to be something less than a guy like Stanley "Steamer" Morgan, or among current players roughly on a par with Anquan Boldin. He'll certainly be in the Packer HOF; but he won't be in the Ring.

There is really no comparison at all between Hutson and Driver. Hutson is a legend of the game.

 

[ivo610]

I am by no means trying to play both sides here, but.....

I love and respect what DD has done for the packers. I also respect the history of the packers and those who helped mold this team into the storied franchise they are today. I think it is hard to compare someone from generations past to a more current player. I am also NOT being a racist in what I am about to say. If Hutson was playing on a basically all white team and being that the run game was the bread and butter, the other team would have been playing to stop the run and not be playing as much pass coverage. Hutson was athletic for the era he played in and more athletic than the other guys he faced, but if he were to be playing in todays day and age he would be covered like a blanket by the speedy and aggressive DB's in the league. If a black guy like Revis were to cover Hutson, he would be absolutely astonished and frustrated that he couldn't get open and by the aggressive type coverage that WR's have to face today. Yes, in the past you had to worry about getting your head taken off by a defender, but then again the pass game was not as relavent back then. I bet casey hayward could even cover some of the pasts best WR's and he a rookie.

Love DD and what he has done for us, Love Hutson for what he gave us in the past and what name he helped make for the team.

And back then they didn't have pass interference. They didn't have the schemes or the QB talent.

His TD record stood for so long it's amazing. He is truly the babe Ruth of football

 

[TJV]

Exactly right ivo610. The Ruth/Hutson comparison is so dead-on I made it here : http://www.packerforum.com/threads/...-of-the-team-bart-starr-15.36845/#post-448107

IMO we should compare athletes of the past to their contemporaries...

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would take issue with statements that Hutson would not be an elite player in the modern integrated game.

He was VERY fast. You can see it the few clips that are available. If he walked on the field today, in modern equipment with modern cleats on modern turf, you'd see a guy with physical skills equivalent to Lance Alworth.

 

[slaughter25]

He played in an era when passing was not nearly as prolific. So, passing was not as expected. Couple that with Don's physical size, speed, and athleticism and you have one HELL of a weapon. Also, when you think about how many games Don played in, it really shows just how special he was.

In this era that Donald Driver is playing in, passing is much, much more common place. There are more receivers to spread the ball around to (especially on our team.) and defenders are a TON more athletic. Even more so than most receivers I would bet. That is why Donald has less to show for his 200 games. HOWEVER, he is the Packers' all time leading receiver. That says a lot in and of it self.

First thing, you make it sound like because not everyone was throwing the ball 30+ times a game that the players and coaches were just running around like chickens with their heads cut off whenever a team went to a passing play against them. It is foolish to think that teams were not anticipating and scheming to stop Don Hutson as much if not more than DD at any point in his career, especially now.

I also pose this train of thought to you in regards to the perceived athleticism difference in todays game vs when Hutson played. Isn't it fair to say that both the WR and the DB athleticism has increased in a more balanced way. Sure today we have guys like Revis smothering WRs at the line of scrimmage for the entire game. But we also have guys like Calvin Johnson. I don't remember the exact figures but it was on Sports Science on ESPN. Given his wingspan and height without moving his feet he could catch a ball withing the distance of a garage door around him. Incredible. You can also say there were no guys like that back then.

 

[longtimefan]

Not sure how true it is, but this forum talks about his 100 yard dash time


http://packerrats.com/archive/index.php/t-789.html

I was just watching "The History of the Green Bay Packers" DVD, great disc..get it if you don't have it.

Curly Lambeau went down to scout the rose bowl one year. The practices were closed , but he climbed a fench to watch Alabama. This was before scouting was anything really. He may have been the first coach to travel any real distance to scout a player. That's where he first saw Don Hutson. After the Rose Bowl Lambeau timed Hudson in the 100 yard dash as that was the distance at the time.

Lambeau timed Hutson running the 100 yard dash in 9.7 seconds..

Olympic times

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/archive/results.jsp?sex=M&disciplineId=1&id=1

9.6 to 9.8

So Hutson was just as fast as Olympic runners

 

[HardRightEdge]

Not sure how true it is, but this forum talks about his 100 yard dash time


http://packerrats.com/archive/index.php/t-789.html




Olympic times

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/archive/results.jsp?sex=M&disciplineId=1&id=1

9.6 to 9.8

So Hutson was just as fast as Olympic runners

Those look like 100 meter times, where 9.7 makes you a world elite sprinter. Here are top 100 yard dash times, a distance that has not been run at elite levels for quite some time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_yard_dash

Still, 9.7 in the 100 yard dash is VERY FAST, and from the clips I'd say that was possible for Hutson. There are probably not a dozen players in today's game who could match it. Bob Hayes held the world record at 9.1; Bo Jackson reportedly ran 9.3; O.J. Simpson 9.4; Lance Alworth 9.6.

I'm a little skeptical of translating that 9.7 to a 40 time, not knowing Hutson's start speed vs. closing speed, but you'd expect it to be in the 4.3's, give or take a bit.[/quote]

 

[ivo610]

Hutson would benefit from today's training as well.

 

[longtimefan]

Those look like 100 meter times, where 9.7 makes you a world elite sprinter. Here are top 100 yard dash times, a distance that has not been run at elite levels for quite some time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_yard_dash

Still, 9.7 in the 100 yard dash is VERY FAST, and from the clips I'd say that was possible for Hutson. There are probably not a dozen players in today's game who could match it. Bob Hayes held the world record at 9.1; Bo Jackson reportedly ran 9.3; O.J. Simpson 9.4; Lance Alworth 9.6.

I'm a little skeptical of translating that 9.7 to a 40 time, not knowing Hutson's start speed vs. closing speed, but you'd expect it to be in the 4.3's, give or take a bit.

No scroll down to 1970 and 60 and 50...there are YARDS mixed in


1953
F: 100 yards; S/F: 8/8; D: 26 JUN
1. Arthur Bragg 9.5 =MR
2. Thane Baker 9.6
3. James Golliday 9.6
4. Joe Schatzle 9.6
5. Joe Graffio 9.6
6. Lindy Remigino 9.6

1967
F: 100 yards; S/F: 8/8; D: 22 JUN; W: -4.0 mph
1. James Hines 9.3
2. Charles Greene 9.3
3. Paul Nash (SAF) 9.4
4. Willie Turner 9.4
5. George Anderson 9.5
6. Larry Dunn
9.5

 

[TJV]

I’ll post this again just so there is no misunderstanding: I love Donald Driver’s contributions to the Green Bay Packers. I just recognize he’s at the end of his great career.

- - - - - -

This is “piling on” at this point but I’m very happy to see Packers fans give the great Don Hutson his due. Six years ago, Cold Hard Football Facts picked who they consider the “greatest football team ever assembled”. What made their effort different is they restricted themselves to picking only 11 players. Of course Don Hutson was one of the 11. A lot of players played on both sides of the ball at the time Hutson played and as HardRightEdge mentioned, Hutson wasn’t an exception. But he didn’t just play DB, he was damn good on the other side of the ball, too. Here’s what CHFF had to say about him:

“No receiver in history – not even Jerry Rice – dominated the position like Don Hutson. He was also a stellar defensive back and a clear choice to make any superstar team, including our All-Time 11, where he shreds defenses at wide receiver and shuts down opposing offenses at cornerback.
…
Hutson's signature campaign was 1942, when – in an 11-game season – he intercepted seven passes and hauled in a Ruthian 74 receptions for 1,211 yards (16.4 YPC) and 17 TDs. Projected over a 16-game season, that's one of the greatest receiving seasons ever: 108 catches for 1,761 yards and 25 TDs.”

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/all-time-11-the-greatest-football-team-ever-assembled/5442/

 

[slaughter25]

I’ll post this again just so there is no misunderstanding: I love Donald Driver’s contributions to the Green Bay Packers. I just recognize he’s at the end of his great career.

- - - - - -

This is “piling on” at this point but I’m very happy to see Packers fans give the great Don Hutson his due. Six years ago, Cold Hard Football Facts picked who they consider the “greatest football team ever assembled”. What made their effort different is they restricted themselves to picking only 11 players. Of course Don Hutson was one of the 11. A lot of players played on both sides of the ball at the time Hutson played and as HardRightEdge mentioned, Hutson wasn’t an exception. But he didn’t just play DB, he was damn good on the other side of the ball, too. Here’s what CHFF had to say about him:

“No receiver in history – not even Jerry Rice – dominated the position like Don Hutson. He was also a stellar defensive back and a clear choice to make any superstar team, including our All-Time 11, where he shreds defenses at wide receiver and shuts down opposing offenses at cornerback.
…
Hutson's signature campaign was 1942, when – in an 11-game season – he intercepted seven passes and hauled in a Ruthian 74 receptions for 1,211 yards (16.4 YPC) and 17 TDs. Projected over a 16-game season, that's one of the greatest receiving seasons ever: 108 catches for 1,761 yards and 25 TDs.”

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/all-time-11-the-greatest-football-team-ever-assembled/5442/

Holy crap. Add that on to a shade over 10 INT on the other side of the ball over 16 games and you might have one of the most impressive seasons ever played by anyone.

 

[gwh11]

Here is my take on Donald Driver and the NFL HOF: I think he makes it in. Why? Well, look at some PACKERS who are in the HOF who's numbers aren't really all that comparable to some other folks who are in the HOF.

*PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM NOT BELITTLING THESE AMAZING PLAYERS ACCOMPLISHMENTS OR WHO THEY ARE AS PEOPLE!*

Bart Starr: His numbers are fairly mediocre, but he is in the HOF because he is a 2 time Super Bowl champion, 2 time Super Bowl MVP, and Lombardi's top gunner.

Paul Hornung: Again, not stellar numbers, and he got into some hot water for betting on games I do believe. However, he wa very much an effective hybrid player.

Those are just two guys off of the top of my head, and only for our team. I am sure there are more people in the HOF who's numbers aren't amazing but they get in because of what they meant to their game, era, and team. I think Donald Driver means a WHOLE lot to the Packers organization, and by more than what he does in the field.

Also, this season he has 2 TDs out of how many receptions? Maybe 6? 8? How many times has he been targeted? 10 at best? 12? Not too shabby. Also, in the Seattle game he BARELY missed a 3rd (would have been his 2nd at the time.) TD catch. It sailed over his head. He jumped to snag it, but it was off his finger tips even at the pinnacle of his jump.

There is no doubt that Don Hutson was a special player. 99 TD receptions in an era of smash mouth football.

I think you have to understand that Driver meets absolutely none of the more important factors/criteria the Pro Football Hall Of Fame voters typically use when discussing possible candidates.

Driver has never been voted to any All-Pro teams during his career.

He has never led the conference or league in any meaningful statistical category.

He has never held/broken any NFL records.

He has never been considered among the very best (top three or so) at his position at any point in his career.

He has been voted to Pro Bowls on only three occasions (not a HOF-caliber number in this era).

He is nowhere near the top of any important all-time statistical lists for receiving (TDs, yards, receptions).

A cherished player who will be in the team's HOF someday? Absolutely. But he will never be enshrined in Canton. He does not have that kind of resume.

 

[longtimefan]

And /there is the DAGGER from GW

 

[HardRightEdge]

I’ll post this again just so there is no misunderstanding: I love Donald Driver’s contributions to the Green Bay Packers. I just recognize he’s at the end of his great career.

- - - - - -

This is “piling on” at this point but I’m very happy to see Packers fans give the great Don Hutson his due. Six years ago, Cold Hard Football Facts picked who they consider the “greatest football team ever assembled”. What made their effort different is they restricted themselves to picking only 11 players. Of course Don Hutson was one of the 11. A lot of players played on both sides of the ball at the time Hutson played and as HardRightEdge mentioned, Hutson wasn’t an exception. But he didn’t just play DB, he was damn good on the other side of the ball, too. Here’s what CHFF had to say about him:

“No receiver in history – not even Jerry Rice – dominated the position like Don Hutson. He was also a stellar defensive back and a clear choice to make any superstar team, including our All-Time 11, where he shreds defenses at wide receiver and shuts down opposing offenses at cornerback.
…
Hutson's signature campaign was 1942, when – in an 11-game season – he intercepted seven passes and hauled in a Ruthian 74 receptions for 1,211 yards (16.4 YPC) and 17 TDs. Projected over a 16-game season, that's one of the greatest receiving seasons ever: 108 catches for 1,761 yards and 25 TDs.”

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/all-time-11-the-greatest-football-team-ever-assembled/5442/

Interesting to see Bobby Bell recognized in this way. A phenomenal football player lost in the fog of time.