DJ Smith > AJ Hawk ?

[MARCOPO]

Just read this great little article linked from PFT that shows DJ Smith's up-side makes it hard to justify starting Hawk another year. I'd say, given his salary, it's time to cut Hawk outright. Smith looked the part last season, playing with a decisive intensity that we haven't seen from Hawk since his Ohio State days. What do you say, is DJ Smith finally the guy that convinces Ted to cut the overpaid-underperforming Hawk? I think so. Check out the article, it's a quick read and very informative.

As I understand the numbers, if the Packers cut A.J. Hawk this season, they'll take a 1.2 hit on their cap. If they cut him next year, the cap will decrease by 200K. He won't be cut this year. What you probably will see is more and more use of "packages", involving Smith in and Hawk out.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I think they will probably keep Hawk around because 1 injury to Smith and you are screwed if Hawk is gone. I hope they start Smith though and use Hawk in running/short yardage/goal line situations only.

 

[rodell330]

No way we'd get a third for Hawk...just no way. We should move on. Like someone mentioned, that salary cap space could much better be spent on someone who actually produces.

Hawk has had more than enough time to prove himself. He has proved to be average at best. I will never cease to be amazed at the contract we gave to him...while letting Jenkins walk.

Exactly my thought's...the loss of Jenkings hurt us bad and the numbers proved it.

 

[bozz_2006]

I hope they start Smith though and use Hawk in running/short yardage/goal line situations only.

You want AJ "I'll let you drag me ten yards before you go down" Hawk in on short yard/goal line situations? Not me!

 

[DevilDon]

The Hate Hawk Talk has gone on forever. I think he's a serviceable starter. He'd probably start for most teams. That's not a bust. Are there better ILBs? Lots of 'em but you can't have superstars at every position. I think the Packers got enough out of him and continue to get enough out of him to justify their faith in him.
I do however think that we will be talking another story next near with Manning. I think he's a high motor, high effort player who has to have time to learn the NFL game. I think that is what the Packers saw in him to cause them to move up in the draft to pick him. You have to believe if the Packers thought DJ was the answer they would have had no reason to draft Manning except depth but would TT move up in the draft for depth?

 

[bozz_2006]

I'm not saying he's a bust. I'm saying that the money spent on him could be spent far more effectively on guys like Sitton and Jennings, who are in need of new contracts. It's not that I don't want Hawk on the team at all. What I don't want is his salary on the books.

 

[PackMan13x]

OK, as a Buckeye fan, I watched EVERY college game of AJ's career. The physical attributes were there, the stats were there, the production was there. BUT it seemed like in college he always had the knack of being in the right place at the right time, like always. I chalked it up to instinct, and was pumped when we took him at #5. But as I watched him play for the Packers, I felt he was solid but never had the impact he did watching him at OSU. Every year I was expecting the breakout year, it sorta came in 2010, but went last year. I honestly feel he has what it takes, I saw it first hand, it just isn't happening. If it weren't for the salary, I would want him to play out his contract.

 

[PackMan13x]

I hear all this Jennings/Sitton contract talk and I'd like to throw it out there that #12 is also about due for a new huge contract. I didn't look it up but I think he makes less than Sanchez and Bradford for crying out loud!

EDIT: more than Sanchez, but 9th highest QB base salary...

 

[bozz_2006]

I mention Sitton and Jennings because they're in the final year of their contracts, and the $5-6M devoted to Hawk this season could be utilized as signing bonus money for those guys. I'm not forgetting about Rodgers; I'm just assuming his new contract is likely a year away. Just my guess.

 

[60six]

I mention Sitton and Jennings because they're in the final year of their contracts, and the $5-6M devoted to Hawk this season could be utilized as signing bonus money for those guys. I'm not forgetting about Rodgers; I'm just assuming his new contract is likely a year away. Just my guess.

Sitton just signed a new 6 year deal last year, so hes all set.

Jennings, Lang, Masthay and Brad Jones are the top 2013 F/As. Jones not so much, but the other 3 need addressing.

EDIT : Masthay is a restricted F/A, so he not going anywhere

Rodger needs to wait his turn so we dont screw up the cap number.

 

[bozz_2006]

Huh. I wonder who the hell I was thinking of then...

 

[HyponGrey]

I think they will probably keep Hawk around because 1 injury to Smith and you are screwed if Hawk is gone. I hope they start Smith though and use Hawk in running/short yardage/goal line situations only.

So he can tackle the RB in the middle of his touchdown dance? I hope the exact opposite, Put Hawk in to play minimal coverage when the team is likely to take a shot way downfield. Put his brain to work in a situation where it pays to be smart when you're not fast enough

 

[HyponGrey]

Hawk has great "intangibles", he never touches anybody.
production production production.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Why must the Packers coaching staff insist that Hawk "didn't have an off year"? Why are they bending over backwards for this guy?

It's one thing not to openly criticize your player, but comon.

 

[rodell330]

Hawk will never be the Patrick Willis/ Ray Lewis type of MLB but for his salary number i do agree that he should be more of an impact player. I also agree that our d-line was garbage last year and did not do what they needed to do taking on blockers.

 

[GreenBlood]

I'm not saying he's a bust. I'm saying that the money spent on him could be spent far more effectively on guys like Sitton and Jennings, who are in need of new contracts. It's not that I don't want Hawk on the team at all. What I don't want is his salary on the books.

Respectfully, Thompson is NOT a guy who has a record of over-paying players. I think he's in a far better position to evaluate Hawk's value to the team than we are.

 

[Darth Garfunkel]

Why must the Packers coaching staff insist that Hawk "didn't have an off year"?

Maybe they just meant it wasn't an off year since he's mediocre every year.

 

[bozz_2006]

Respectfully, Thompson is NOT a guy who has a record of over-paying players. I think he's in a far better position to evaluate Hawk's value to the team than we are.

True, but Hawk still doesn't pass the eye test.

 

[757Niner]

Interesting reading all the banter in this thread. I was never enamored with Hawk as a draft prospect. Everyone loved him but it was something about his instincts that I thought wouldn't carry over to the next level. That and I thought Carpenter actually didnt get enough credit for the impact he had on Hawk's play and not vice versa. I thought he would be good. I didnt see the greatness everyone else was expecting. That being said, I agree with the most everyone here. As a outsider watching the Packers, I always thought he was good ILB but wasn't a playmaker that you want your MIKE to be. A more athletically version of Derek Smith, former Niner and Redskin MLB. Makes a ton of tackles, but very little impact down to down. I always came away more impressed by Bishop, especially his stoutness in the run game. Didnt see enough of DJ Smith last year to draw a conclusion so I'll be sure to keep a eye out for him this year. Quick question, are the ILBs in Capers scheme interchangable? Or do they play more traditionally 3-4 roles, with the TED more of the thumper and the MIKE more of the playmaker?

 

[60six]

Respectfully, Thompson is NOT a guy who has a record of over-paying players. I think he's in a far better position to evaluate Hawk's value to the team than we are.

He did with Hawk, but great GMs do make mistakes. This was after a SB win and a #1 defensive ranking that year. Also the contract when down to the final hour to get it done before the lockout.

 

[GreenBlood]

He did with Hawk, but great GMs do make mistakes.

Now you're making the claim that you know Hawk's value to the team better than Ted does.

 

[TJV]

Now you're making the claim that you know Hawk's value to the team better than Ted does.

And you are inferring Thompson doesn’t make mistakes. Using hindsight of course we can identify those mistakes. The reason Thompson is one of the best GMs in the league is not that he is perfect and makes no mistakes; it’s that he makes fewer mistakes than others and far fewer than most. For example, not pursuing Cullen Jenkins in free agency was a mistake. Who doesn’t agree he would have been worth more to the Packers’ defense than Philly paid him? Thompson, like every other GM in the history of the NFL, has also made mistakes in the draft (Justin Harrell and Brian Brohm are two obvious examples). And only a fool would say if he could go back to the 2006 draft, knowing what he knows today, Thompson would select Hawk at #5.

Regarding Hawk’s extension (actually he was a UFA for a few minutes before signing his new deal) we can compare Hawk’s compensation and performance to other ILBs in the league and even to Packers like Bishop who outperform him at a lower compensation. It may be argued that Hawk’s play was negatively affected by the poor play of the DL, but it can’t reasonably be argued that Bishop didn’t face the same situation.

Beyond that if the prevailing view on this board is ‘Thompson made a decision, therefore it must be correct’, it would no longer fully be a discussion board. Thompson deserves the benefit of the doubt but no human being should be immune from criticism. And this is coming from an adamant Thompson fan: http://www.packerforum.com/threads/thompsons-way.29622/

 

[GreenBlood]

And you are inferring Thompson doesn’t make mistakes. Using hindsight of course we can identify those mistakes.

No, I'm not. I'm saying there isn't a clear consensus that it was a mistake to begin with. It is your opinion that he made a mistake, but that in itself does not mean that it was, in fact, a mistake at all. Some guys are on the defense because they are super athletic. Some because they are aggressive. Some are outstanding tacklers. Hawk happens to be a smart guy who is outstanding at making adjustments on the fly. That's why Capers wanted him back and Thompson paid him what the market dictated. Plain and simple.

 

[TJV]

Obviously everyone here is offering their opinions but just because Thompson did something doesn’t mean it was the correct decision, which is precisely what you inferred. And at this point we don’t know if Thompson could go back in time whether or not he’d make the same decision on Hawk.

 

[DoddPower]

I don't remember if this article has already been posted, but it provides a nice analysis of Hawk, Bishop, and Smith. I apologize for just pasting the link, but I'm in a hurry. If you're interested in such an analysis, it's well worth the read:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/12/secret-superstar-d-j-smith-lb-green-bay-packers/