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[DEBATE] Staff

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zero2Cool, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    The thing that all the Sherman supporters fail to recognize is this: our defense was adequate in 02, sucked in 03, and was down right pathetic in 04. If you guys want to believe that we were a super bowl caliber team in any of those years, go ahead, I would argue this to eternity.

    I appreciate the theory that if you are one or two players from a super bowl, you keep it all together and grab those guys and take your shot. Shermans problem was that he did not recognize the fact that we were a lot farther than 2 players from the super bowl, although he ran his drafts and spent the cap as if we were.

    The only thing tearing me up about this rebuilding process, is watching the look on Favre's face on Sunday. I don't like watching him have to force things on the field, and I am sure this is really wearing on him. This is gut check time for the Packers organization and the fans. Do we stand together and weather the storm, or fight like 10 kids whose rich, dead parents left no will.
  2. DePack
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...


    And with almost an entirely new defensive team.....even worse in '06. If that D in '04 was "downright pathetic" then Mike Sherman should have won Coach of the year getting 10 wins.

    What you douches don't understand is that you can't have it both ways. "Mike Sherman was an awful GM." "The talent pool was horendous." "Mike Sherman sucked as a coach." "During that same period the Packers made the playoffs 4 times and won three divisional titles."


    At least one of the above statements is false. Anyone with any grey matter at all will acknowledge this. You pick which one(s) it is.
  3. packerfanfourever
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    Wow Packer fans calling each other douches and I thought we had the best fans in the NFL, its okay to disagree and you not the only one name calling Depack but this crap on this board is getting old
  4. DakotaT
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    De, I didn't say anything about his coaching abilities, I said those were not Super Bowl caliber teams. They were not championship material because they were not balanced. You're right he should have one coach of the year to win 10 games in 04. But he should have also one boob of the year to fire Donatell and hire Slowick.
  5. digsthepack
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    Mike Sherman sucked as a GM, his record clearly speaks to this assessment. He was a well above-average coach whose few weaknesses were absolute killers.

    I will continue to make the Daunte Culpepper analogy with MS. They both looked like they belonged in the big time....until they were asked to perform under the pressure of the "big moment", at which time they both folded under their own stupidity (Daunte), or over-analysis to the point of paralysis (Sherman).

    I was at the Queens game in MN last year. We were up 17 and dominating the first half. I looked at my buddy and said, "We are going to lose....Sherman is going to go prevent and will lose late in the game."

    I was Karnak the Magnificent that day.
  6. DePack
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    So you agree he was a great coach but think TT should have fired him?
  7. digsthepack
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    No, I think he was a coach with an achille's heel that had been exposed numerous times...and it was his time to go.

    DePack...you have known my position on MS for years....so please quit trying to put words in my mouth just for the sake of stirring shite up so you have an outlet for all the piss you feel compelled to spew.

    And, while you are at it, why not get those emotions in check and quit referring to others with whom you disagree "douches". Sadly, you are looking like a 66 clone right about now.
  8. DePack
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    digs...look at the time of my post it was intended for Dakota.


    By the way calling douches douches is not as bad as calling a genius a "66 clone". That my friend could get you suspended.
  9. DakotaT
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...


    I really prefer you call me an idiot to a douche'. It's less personal.

    :lol: :lol:
  10. digsthepack
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    I am not under the illusion it was intended for me. I am saying it simply does not belong here...especially from you who, in spite of our vehement disagreements, actually has something to say.

    ********!! LOL
  11. majikman
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    This is an accurate post. I think that alot of people here like to think that TT had to totally dismantle this team, and is rebuilding in the image of the Patriots, Steelers, etc., but it is a myth.

    I think TT fired Sherman and dismantled this team because of his own ego, and wanting to do things his way. But it did not have to be dismantled, and most of those players mentioned above did not have to be let go.

    That is why this team is hurting now, and will be hurting for a long time to come.
  12. warhawk
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    sorry but I see many inaccuracies in this post.

    First of all there can be no disputing MS's failure in the draft. It's embarrasing. Two thirds of the players he drafted are not even in the NFL today.

    One #1 pick he made had ONE good year for us. That's it. We won back then DISPITE the fact that we got very little contributions from those drafted.

    Yes, we made the playoffs in '04. Limped in by our chinny, chin, chin and immediately took one on the chin in the first round. Probably the most embarrasing playoff loss in GB history.

    While other teams were building through the draft and choosing FA's that were helping to improve their teams we were not. Yes, we got a couple of guys. Harris was a good move. But he was not enough to keep the talent on the team overall from going the wrong way.

    I cannot remember going into one season under Sherman where we had made moves that made us a better team than the year before. PLEASE feel free to correct me here. If you can.

    Find one season where you list those we lost and those we gained and in the end were a better team.

    What is so hard about looking at the teams we put on the field in '02 and '03 and comparing the talent and depth of those teams to what we had going into '05 and seeing a dramatic dropoff ?

    Even if TT had kept Wahle and trust me with $2 million bucks in his pocket that's about ALL he could of done. That team doesn't touch '02 and '03.

    Why is it such a mystery to some here that we have just been plain past up by other teams talent wise and now we have to bring in the young blood to turn it around?
  13. porky88
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    This thread should just get pinned :wink:

    I agree with most of that. Sherman never made any good free agent moves even when he did have the money. Roman, Navies and Wesley Walls. Terry Glenn was traded in one year because we felt good about Robert Ferguson if I remember correctly. Don't let anyone fool you. That wasn't Mike Sherman's team that won in the 00's. That was the team he coached but that was a team built by Ron Wolf.

    As a Head coach he was solid but as a GM he's one of the reasons this team is in the mess they are in now. Now like I said it's one thing to bring in a GM that can clean a mess but it's another thing to bring a mess of your own in and maybe that's what's happening.

    We'll see what happens. Right now things don't look good but 2 years from now who knows? I can't see the future. For the most part I think things can look up and they will. I could be wrong. Maybe I'll give miss Cleo a call.

    I wasn't expecting much out of the Packers this season. I think they're rebuilding and it's going to take a couple of years to climb out of the mess we are in. This is year 2. Next year should be better and the year after. If not then a change needs to be made.
  14. majikman
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    I still say that Teddy could have gone a long way in helping this team this year if he would have signed 1 or 2 decent veteran o-lineman, and another veteran receiver or two, and that would not have broken the bank or messed up the future--and they were available.
  15. pyledriver80
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...



    Your assumption is off base. In 2004 the Packers limped into the playoffs, you are correct, but you know what team limped into the playoffs last year........The Super Bowl Champion Steelers!


    Teams lose in the playoffs, it happens. The Giants got SHUTOUT last year in the first round but they didn't just go into instant rebuild mode. Perhaps the Colts should because they just keep choking.


    As much as you want to try to cloud MS's tenure his teams made the playoffs. How and why are merely excuses to fit your argument. They made it and had a chance unlike 20+ other teams come January. Teams lose in the playoffs because you play the best of the best. Happens every year.


    Whatever the case, the true decline came when TT arrived. The RECORD clearly shows that as does the 26-0 ASSWHOOPIN we got handed to us. The effects of TT's moves took us to where we are now. This was a Playoff team that TT took over. Simple Math

    MS's 10-6 team + TT's 05' moves = 4-12
  16. tromadz
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    TT is a witch! Burn him!
  17. porky88
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    Like I stated it was Mike Sherman's coached team. Ron Wolf built the team. Last year you saw what a Mike Sherman built team as GM looked like and it wasn't pretty. This year is Ted Thompson’s team. Last year there was a lot of guys brought in by Sherman and the cap situation was Sherman's. TT inherited a declining team with an awful cap situation. We were 11 million over the cap. That is why you didn't see any big moves last year as GB was looking to get back under. TT did a poor job bringing in the players with the little money he had. That we all agree but because of the cap situation guys had to go. Similar to the 49ers of the 90's who had to let go a lot of players because of cap problems and struggled for a few years and then got back in the playoffs. We will see if we can get back in the playoffs in the next few years.

    The only think off base is your assumption that Sherman built a team that did well in the 00's. He didn't. Like I stated as a Head Coach Mike Sherman was great. He could coach a team built by another guy but when it came time to coach the team he built, he didn't have the guys to do it. Every guy on that line was brought in by Ron Wolf. Brett Favre, Bubba Franks, Ahman Green, Donald Driver were all brought in by Ron Wolf. KGB, Darren Sharper, and Mike McKenzie all brought in by Ron Wolf.

    Wolf was a brilliant GM and should be given credit to building a team that was good long after he was gone. Sherman should be given credit for preparing the team and getting a lot of W's but when it came to building a franchise Mike Sherman couldn't get it done. He could coach a team and make them contend that way. As a GM he wasn’t very good. I'm not saying Ted Thompson is going to be any better. I don't know but Ted Thompson was brought in here to clean up the mess Sherman made as a GM. There is a reason why Bob Harlan made the move and that’s the reason. It’s not because Sherman was working to much, it’s because Sherman wasn’t getting it done as a GM. 9 draft picks out of 27 are on NFL teams now. That is awful. No excuses, just awful. I give Sherman credit for re-signing Driver and Clifton but he didn't bring in any quality free agents to put this team over the top. Ted Thompson hasn't done anything to prove he's better than Sherman but 2 years from now he could very well put a quality team on the field. It’s a wait and see with this era right now.
  18. warhawk
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    so it's just an assumption on my part that MS's draft picks didn't make a hell of a lot of difference and no major impact on this team?

    It's an assumption on my part that after being ONE PLAY from the big show in '03 that what happened in '04 was an indication we were heading in the wrong direction?

    Where's the assumption that the talent level had dropped drastically from the beginning of '03 to the beginning of '05? Look at the rosters!

    What's an assumption is to say TT inherited a team that should have been at least 10-4 because that's what they were the year before. This gives no credit to teams that had been building talent for years and had surpassed us.

    If you didn't notice the Bears have built one big, bad, mutha of a front seven for example. I'd say they are just a little bit better than ours at this time. Is that an assumption as well? Many teams had surpassed us in talent. Hello.

    Of course that's TT's fault. He should have been able to put out as good a front seven as those guys AND keep Rivera, Wahle, and whoever the heck else with $2 mil bucks in '05 and had us back in the SB this year.

    I mean, after all, he inherited all that talent that certainly put us at an equal level to our competitors. Ummmm Hmmmm.
  19. pyledriver80
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...


    Again this confuses me.

    Wolf did do an excellent job as a GM. What did you want MS to do, release them and put in HIS GUYS just because they were HIS GUYS. Thats seems to be what TT is doing.

    There were some pieces in place when MS arrived no doubt but he added to them with Javon Walker, Kampman, etc.

    It's funny that you are unwilling to give MS credit for the team winning but you sure do for the team losing. How was last year MS's guys? Tell me who? If you want to pass blame on him for last year, tell me how it was HIS team last year and not his team in 2004?

    TT let Wahle walk, not MS. TT replaced the Guards with Klemm and Whittacker. JWalk was hurt, and Fergie couldn't fill in. TT brought in Taco Wallace and Jamal Jones to replace him.

    The RBs are neither TT's nor MS's. Ditto for Favre. The TE's were basically the same. The Defense was solid. The PROBLEM on this team last year was the OFFENSE.

    How were there any MS's guys that affected this Offense in a negative way last year? Those same guys minus Klemm and Whitt were 10-6 the year before. This ought to be interesting.
  20. pyledriver80
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    They made enough of a difference that they went from 10-6 when they were here to 4-12 when they were gone

    Because we lost in the first round ofthe playoffs? Happens to GOOD TEAMS every year. Look at the Colts last year.

    Good question? Because they lost 1 game earlier than the year before in the playoffs? Thats DRASTIC? Sorry, I think not. The beginning of 05' we still had the same team......UNTIL TT let everyone walk

    This makes no sense. So in ONE year they surpassed us? How do you know? Did that same 10-6 team take the field in 05? Thats YOUR ASSUMPTION! Teams try to improve EVERY year. They tried to improve in 01,02,03,04 but all thesudden 2005 was the year we WERE going to be surpassed. And you know this HOW?

    This is FUNNY! The Bears built a BIG BAD MUTHA, because they made the Playoffs? Isn't that what MS's teams did, yet they STUNK? At least be consistent and quit with the double talk.

    Our OFFENSE was better! He should have resigned the KEY GUY, Mike Wahle. He then could have signed a decent veteran G for the other side. Again the O was FINE until TT took over.

    I'm glad you get it.
  21. Zero2Cool
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    porky 53
    other 0
  22. warhawk
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    So the "D" MS built in '04 was a good "D"? That's laughable.

    There's no double talk going on here. You saying we should have signed Wahle and that would have somehow got us to the playoffs? That's a bunch of bull.

    You have to be the only one on the planet that would try to argue that this team did not lose talent every year under Sherman's regime.

    You obviously know no one within any inner NFL cirlces because buddy they would laugh you out of the room with that one.
  23. pyledriver80
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...


    Yeah those are the same people that LAUGH at this team right now. This team is a friggin laughingstock! Just sit down and watch ESPN or NFL Network. Ted Thompson could possibly be worse than Matt Millen.


    4-12 - Pathetic
    Terrible Preseason - Pathetic
    26-0 - Pathetic
    Ted Thompson - Pathetic
  24. tromadz
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    Pyle - DA COACH
  25. pyledriver80
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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...


    Dude why are you so engulfed on me being a coach man? I really think you are jealous, and so do others judging by my PM's


    Don't worry, one day you will amount to something to,though judging by your MySpace you may have your work cut out for ya

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