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Davante Adams Thread!

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by Wood Chipper, May 9, 2014.

  1. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    While I´m not convinced the Packers will re-sign both Nelson and Cobb Thompson will for sure bring back Boykin for 2015 as he´s a RFA after this season.
  2. rodell330
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    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Is it fair to say that Cobb brings more to the team than Nelson? Or is it Nelson because he's clearly Rodgers favorite target? Cobb can be effective in the return game and take over a game from the slit. Nelson was horrible returning kicks but he's our deep threat and makes some crazy catches in the clutch.
  3. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I think that it´s pretty obvious that if the Packers decide to re-sign only one of them it will be Cobb as he´s five years younger than Nelson.
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  4. HardRightEdge
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    The Packers will make every effort possible to get Cobb out of the business of returning kicks. Hyde has already supplanted him in the punt return game. We just have to find somebody who's adequate returning kickoffs...a fairly low bar that we have not been able to get over in recent years with Green, Franklin, Ross, et. al.

    I think you have to judge Nelson vs. Cobb on their value as receivers alone. As a starting point, I would not pigeon hole Cobb as a slot receiver...that just happens to be where he's needed to play. There's no reason to think he can't expand his route tree to include more wide out work. Guys who have come before him...Driver, Jennings, Nelson...all have done a fair amount of work inside and outside and Cobb is not exactly a little guy...his measurables are about the same as Jennings.

    Cobb and Nelson are different types of players, both accomplished and productive. Required to make a choice, I'd go with Cobb over Nelson based on age.
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  5. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I also believe it is not coincidence the Packers went high for a WR (as predicted) and that the WR chosen has far more similarities to Nelson than to Cobb...he's a bigger guy, runs crisp routes, makes the back shoulder catch, can take guys on in short routes. Adams just doesn't have the long speed of Nelson; all the more reason to have Cobb start working in more snaps at wide out.
  6. GoPGo
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    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Did you watch the games last year? He put up big numbers every chance he got. When he was starting, he was a pretty damn good #2.
  7. GoPGo
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    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    How can you possibly make such a claim? You do realize that Jordy only ran his combine 40 yard dash 0.05 seconds faster than Adams, right? We're talking about Adams finishing about 20 inches behind Jordy if they ran side-by-side. That's about 1/3 of a stride. Another thing is that we don't know how quickly both players bleed off speed further downfield. Maybe Jordy starts to slow around the 40 yard mark and Adams maintains his speed beyond the 50 yard mark. If so, then it would stand to reason that Adams had BETTER long speed than Nelson. Of course, this is just speculation since we don't have that data, but it's also entirely possible. So to make a blanket statement that Adams doesn't have the long speed of Nelson is pure conjecture.

    And again, until they start timing the 40 yard dash from a normal WR stance with pads on, the whole thing is meaningless. Jerry Rice ran away from a lot of DBs and he never clocked under a 4.6 in the 40 yard dash. How often do you see a WR run an unimpeded straight-line 40 yards off the line anyway?
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  8. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    All things being the same as hey have been...I say Cobb and Nelson will both be signed
  9. rodell330
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    Well I hope you're right.
  10. HardRightEdge
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    I looked at the tape.
  11. Dylan Hoppe
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    Think about the players in the past that have been swiped. This guy has outstanding athleticism and all it's going to take is some acrobatic catches and proof of hands in the offseason for someone to grab him. Not everyone has the depth at WR that Green Bay does.


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  12. Dylan Hoppe
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    Could see Manziel throwing him the ball with good ole Gordon going off the deep end.


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  13. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Of course it is possible for him to make the team. But right now I would rank him 8th or 9th on the WR depth chart, so he has a lot of work to do to make the roster.
  14. GoPGo
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    There is no tape of Adams playing with Aaron Rodgers. If you really did look at his Fresno State highlights, you'll notice Carr's propensity to under-throw his receivers most of the time. Adams almost always had to slow down on longer routes and win the jump ball. It's amazing he was able to do what he did with Carr throwing to him.

    Even if I were to concede that Adams doesn't have Nelson's long speed (and I'm not due to lack of evidence), I can just as easily say that Nelson doesn't have Adams' vertical leap, which is every bit as important for a WR, and there's no refuting that.

    You're quite honestly one of the only people I know of who makes a big deal out of 40 yard dash anymore. Clearly TT doesn't.
  15. Dylan Hoppe
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    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    Does anyone realize that his 40 time wasn't even that bad? Like really? It was pretty good... I liked the comparison with all those other players. Let's go ask jerry rice if Adams had a slow 40?


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  16. easyk83
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    To me Cobb needs to show more on the sidelines. He still strikes me as more of a slot specialist than a true number 1.
  17. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Agreed. If the Packers decide to bring only one of them back there´s no way they let Cobb walk though.
  18. HardRightEdge
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    I looked at how he runs in routes and after the catch. Where, in any of my posts, did I mention his 40 time? I did talk about the various kinds of speed I've observed in Nelson, Jones, Cobb and Adams in earlier posts.

    I also was the first to observe post-draft in these pages Adams vertical leap, one reason I characterized his upside as a slightly slower Roddy White in contrast to the Jones 2.0 nonsense floating around (perhaps promulgated by Mayock).

    I generally believe more reading, less assuming and less making sh*t up is the preferred approach...you evidently characterized my thoughts without actually knowing anything about them.

    If one makes the thought experiment that Nelson will depart after 2014 and Finley will not be back, I believe it to be indisputable that Jennings/Nelson/Jones/Finley out,
    Boykin/Adams/Quarless/Rodgers in results in a generally slower receiving corp.
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  19. brandon2348
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    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    I agree. I pay way more attention to the "10 yard split" and "20 yard shuttle" as how often does a guy run 40 yards in straight line during a game? Davante Adams does not have a speed problem and IMO is far more then a posession receiver. Tape is always a good indicator too. lol
  20. HardRightEdge
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    Well, tape IS a good indicator and I went back and looked at the reels Wood Chipper was kind enough to provide in post #1 of this thread.

    I see an instance where Adams burned a corner badly on an early double move and Carr overthrew him wide open.

    Other than that, if you pay close attention to the things that maybe you don't want to see, you'll notice Adams rarely getting separation on 20+ yard throws. On down field completions you'll see Carr dropping balls in over corners right on his hip but with their backs turned, or Carr putting the ball high for a reach or leap. Good stuff, but you won't find any instances of Adams running away from anybody if it isn't off a fake.

    I see him making his money in the first 10-15 yards...good moves, muscle and hands...his separation comes off the break or not at all.

    You can get away with looking at just 10 yd. splits and 20 yard shuttles for RBs, edge rushers, TEs and possession receivers. Nothing wrong with looking at that stuff for wideouts too, but it misses a key factor. When it comes to wideouts, you want to look at what happens when they get in full stride down field to see if they've got game breaking speed.

    Nelson for example isn't going to wow anybody with his 4.5 40 time...but when he gets into his long stride I've never seen anybody catch him. I said this before, on several occasions, yet I'm suddenly the guy obsessed with 40 times?

    40 times are important to look at when talking about WRs and CBs in particular but then you have to see how that squares with the tape.
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  21. GoPGo
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  22. brandon2348
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    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    I agree that 40 times have there place but so often they are overly used. I have learned that you gotta be careful with them as it doesn't always translate to fast play on the field.

    I have watched Adam's Film as well and I agree with everything you posted but would re-enforce his ability to make people miss after the catch(YAC). It makes him very dangerous in open field. He definitely is a receiver that was helped by a QB who threw him open. Lucky for us Aaron Rodgers is the best QB at throwing receivers open in the NFL. I don't see Adams as a guy that is just going to run by people and lacks that "5th gear" but I still think he has "big play" ability. It should be exciting to see what he can do as a rookie.

    We can all name a ton of receivers who have made big plays down field that weren't blazers. IMO he will be a nice addition in the red zone.
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  23. Eli Haugen
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    ev
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  24. SoonerPack
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    I have said it from day one and I will continue to until my dying day. Every player at the combine/pro-days should be in full pads. How many times have we seen some burner tear up the combine and once you put game tape on he looks like he's in quicksand? There is no way to simulate a game like atmosphere but I really believe that players wearing all their gear would get us a lot closer. One other reason I love the idea is for gauging the true ability of the wide receivers. There are many guys who catch with their body and if they were in full pads the likelihood of the ball bouncing out is much greater with pads on than without. This would help scouts determine which players truly have the better set of paws and I think guys like Adams would shine ever more as this would be an advantage to the true "hands" catchers. I am a former speech and debate guy and always love hearing opposing views on any and all topics. In all my years I have never had anyone give me a respectable answer as to why full pads should not be used in these controlled environment situations. If anyone has one please by all means fire away!

    Quick side note...throughout the years I have participated in many sites like this one and I have to say that hands down this forum provides me with the most balanced, well thought opinions and fan insight. I am so glad I stumbled upon Packers Forum and look forward to reading and sharing opinions on the greatest team in American Football history. Have a killer Friday and as always, GPG!!
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  25. SoonerPack
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    Amen! As I have said before I love speed as much as the next guy but I would much rather have the guy with "enough" speed that runs crisp routes, has sticky hands and is where 12 wants him to be more times than not. Marvin Harrison wasn't the fastest guy and for that matter neither was Reggie Wayne. What did those 2 "non-burner" guys do? Exactly. The great thing is if we didn't have AR one could use the "yeah but they had a HOF QB throwing..." Call me a homer but as much as I respect and admire Manning I would take 12 over him every day of the week and that is saying something. I am so jacked to see Adams in the redzone beasting on DB's. His skill set just fits so well with what we do and judging from his body type he should be a pretty decent blocker on the edge. I will admit that I am learning more on him daily as well as the other picks and UDFA's but does anyone know what type of blocker this kid is? Does he enjoy it and attack it while utilizing his thick frame? Does he do enough to get by and not look like he's dogging it? Does he olay (sp?) people? Did Fresno even run the ball?!?!? Drop some knowledge on me if anyone has some insight on this...GPG!!

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