Datone Jones

[HardRightEdge]

Was it really that obvious? I feel like I recall hearing those in the business thinking he'd be an ideal fit for 3-4 in this new-age of football with speed at QB. And it's awfully early to call him a failure because Mike Daniels isn't a fit for the 3-4 system by measurables, but he certainly is making it work for this defense.

Jones, at 290 lbs., would have been smallest starting 3-4 DE in the league. The assumption has been he'd fill out to 310 or so without losing quickness. Those kinds of assumptions are always risky. That said, he was clearly not NFL-ready.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And I don't mind piling on about the Perry pick whenever anybody opens a door.

Here's a guy who packed on 15-20 lbs. for the Combine, begging to picked for 4-3 DE. He then in fact stated that preference. After that, I was certain we'd pass on him; when you take a guy with a suspect motor to start with you need to appeal to his love of the game in way possible, not the opposite by playing him out of position.

Absolutely agree with that as well.

I'm not a TT hater; not much of an fan either. The last few drafts have not been particularly good; on the other hand we could have done worse. But the Perry pick...that is very difficult to justify.

I'm not a TT hater either (although often being called one here cause I don't agree with him all the time ). No matter how much someone likes TT it's pretty obvious that 2011 and 2012 drafts weren't really great. Too early to judge the entire 2013 class, though it seems like we got at least two impact players out of it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm not a TT hater either (although often being called one here cause I don't agree with him all the time ).

Well, it comes with the territory I suppose. This is a fan board. To some homers, if you're not with them as a matter of faith you must be a troll.

 

[Darth Garfunkel]

TT used to be a linebacker correct? It's weird how he hits with so many offensive players but whiffs more often on defense.

 

[packrulz]

He will be a situational player in a 3-4 defense though as he´s not big and strong enough to play the run in the base.

Jones, at 290 lbs., would have been smallest starting 3-4 DE in the league. The assumption has been he'd fill out to 310 or so without losing quickness. Those kinds of assumptions are always risky. That said, he was clearly not NFL-ready.

Datone Jones is listed on the Packers roster as 6-4, 285 lbs. Brett Keisel, Pittburgh Steelers, is 6-5, 285 lbs, Pernell McPhee, Baltimore Ravens, is 6-3, 280 lbs, Michael Johnson, Cincinnati Bengals, is 6-7, 270 lbs, and Justin Smith, San Francisco 49ers, is 6-4, 285 lbs. This argument that Datone is too small or not strong enough is ridiculous.

 

[AmishMafia]

Jones, at 290 lbs., would have been smallest starting 3-4 DE in the league. The assumption has been he'd fill out to 310 or so without losing quickness. Those kinds of assumptions are always risky. That said, he was clearly not NFL-ready.

Absolutely agree with that as well.



I'm not a TT hater either (although often being called one here cause I don't agree with him all the time ). No matter how much someone likes TT it's pretty obvious that 2011 and 2012 drafts weren't really great. Too early to judge the entire 2013 class, though it seems like we got at least two impact players out of it.

Maybe the issue is that some people just seem to make stuff up to prove a negative point about TT. I'm not sure if it is done out of malice or ignorance, but many of the things posted against TT are just made up.

Brett Kiesell Steelers
Justin Smith 49ers
Cameron Hayword Steelers


all under 290

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Datone Jones is listed on the Packers roster as 6-4, 285 lbs. Brett Keisel, Pittburgh Steelers, is 6-5, 285 lbs, Pernell McPhee, Baltimore Ravens, is 6-3, 280 lbs, Michael Johnson, Cincinnati Bengals, is 6-7, 270 lbs, and Justin Smith, San Francisco 49ers, is 6-4, 285 lbs. This argument that Datone is too small or not strong enough is ridiculous.

McPhee was a situational player his first two season as well and moved to OLB in 2013, the Bengals run a 4-3 defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe the issue is that some people just seem to make stuff up to prove a negative point about TT. I'm not sure if it is done out of malice or ignorance, but many of the things posted against TT are just made up.

Brett Kiesell Steelers
Justin Smith 49ers
Cameron Hayword Steelers


all under 290

Fine, these guys are exceptions though and Justin Smith is the only one lighter than Datone.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

Chandler Jones - one of the better and younger 3-4 ends - 6'5", 270 lbs. I could have sworn people compared him to Jones for his athleticism and fit in the 3-4.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Chandler Jones - one of the better and younger 3-4 ends - 6'5", 270 lbs. I could have sworn people compared him to Jones for his athleticism and fit in the 3-4.

The Patriots don't play a base 3-4 defense.

 

[NOMOFO]

Was it really that obvious? I feel like I recall hearing those in the business thinking he'd be an ideal fit for 3-4 in this new-age of football with speed at QB. And it's awfully early to call him a failure because Mike Daniels isn't a fit for the 3-4 system by measurables, but he certainly is making it work for this defense.

Yep... revisionist history runs rampant with some. Like I said, I can't wait to come back to some of these posts next year at this time. It's comical how brilliant some think they are after the fact.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yep... revisionist history runs rampant with some. Like I said, I can't wait to come back to some of these posts next year at this time. It's comical how brilliant some think they are after the fact.

Well, what I can tell you is this.

I posted here, shortly after Jones was drafted, all of the listed heights and weights as shown on ESPN.com for all of the starting 3-4 DEs as shown in the ESPN depth charts. No one debated the point then, because no one was listed over 290.

If some of those guys have been "resized" since then, I cannot account for it.

You can say what you like, but 290 is not the protoype and is not considered optimal.

 

[TJV]

We should learn a lot about Datone Jones this coming season. Here's a quote from an article from training camp, "... the first-round pick stood out again. This time, at the Green Bay Packers’ annual intrasquad scrimmage. The cameo was brief, tame. But the Packers were given another fleeting glimpse of what they have in the 6-foot-4, 295-pound defensive end. So far, he’s been every bit as advertised. Athletic, powerful and explosive."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...comes-ready-to-sack-b9967727z1-218255971.html

Then in the first preseason game, "For one play, the Green Bay Packers were treated to a sneak peak. On Aug. 9 against Arizona, rookie defensive end Datone Jones toasted the No. 7 overall pick, Jonathan Cooper, and made a beeline for the quarterback. Then he tripped, sprained his ankle and hasn't been the same since."
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...njury-b9985886z1-221577891.html#ixzz2t98oKtWM

And he wasn't the same after that injury. Of course it's foolish to get too excited about a rookie in TC or pre-season. And jsonline reported he added 18 pounds from his pro day at UCLA, so he had already added a lot of weight. He will have to add more weight/strength this off season. He seems like a dedicated player so he very well may be able to play DE in the base 3-4. And if he can't, he can still be extremely valuable in the sub packages.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Further, if one presumes Daniels will play some in base, the argument against Jones is stronger.

So, take all these exceptions (guys allegedly under 290) and show me their companion strong-side DEs. Daniels+Jones makes for a very small 3-4 DE combo...prove THAT would not be the smallest in the league.

 

[Darth Garfunkel]

Was it really that obvious? I feel like I recall hearing those in the business thinking he'd be an ideal fit for 3-4 in this new-age of football with speed at QB. And it's awfully early to call him a failure because Mike Daniels isn't a fit for the 3-4 system by measurables, but he certainly is making it work for this defense.

I remember that too. People were saying he was a perfect fit for 3-4. I also remember high praise for picking Hawk when they did. But people like to forget about all of that because they would rather bag on the front office constantly.

My money is on Datone picking it up this year if he stays healthy. ~~~~(knocks on wood)~~~~

 

[AmishMafia]

Further, if one presumes Daniels will play some in base, the argument against Jones is stronger.

So, take all these exceptions (guys allegedly under 290) and show me their companion strong-side DEs. Daniels+Jones makes for a very small 3-4 DE combo...prove THAT would not be the smallest in the league.

Cameron Heyward #97 DE
Pittsburgh Steelers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5 Weight: 288 Age: 24

Brett Keisel #99 DE
Pittsburgh Steelers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5 Weight: 285 Age: 35



Datone Jones #95 DE
Green Bay Packers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-4 Weight: 285 Age: 23


Mike Daniels #76 DE
Green Bay Packers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-0 Weight: 291 Age: 24


--------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that took all of a minute

Steelers: 573 lbs combined
Packers: 576 lbs combined
-

 

[HardRightEdge]

Cameron Heyward #97 DE
Pittsburgh Steelers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5 Weight: 288 Age: 24

Brett Keisel #99 DE
Pittsburgh Steelers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-5 Weight: 285 Age: 35



Datone Jones #95 DE
Green Bay Packers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-4 Weight: 285 Age: 23


Mike Daniels #76 DE
Green Bay Packers | Official Team Site
Height: 6-0 Weight: 291 Age: 24


--------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that took all of a minute

Steelers: 573 lbs combined
Packers: 576 lbs combined
-

It was a leading question, given that the Pittsburgh guys were already listed. So, if you're happy with how the Steelers defended the run last season, then good for you.

 

[AmishMafia]

It was a leading question, given that the Pittsburgh guys were already listed. So, if you're happy with how the Steelers defended the run last season, then good for you.

One step ahead of me, eh? Very clever of you.

Then I suppose you are set to explain how the Steelers with 2 DEs lighter than ours were the #2 ranked defense in 2012.

 

[HardRightEdge]

One step ahead of me, eh? Very clever of you.

Then I suppose you are set to explain how the Steelers with 2 DEs lighter than ours were the #2 ranked defense in 2012.

Well, two reasons might be Ziggy Hood and Casey Hampton who played in front of Heyward and McClendon in 2012. Also, 2012 was the last season of PIT's full compliment of crushing LBs, something we don't have with our "finesse" crew.

Which highlights another point. We don't have a true NT under contract other than maybe Boyd, but he's awfully light for the position at 310 and might actually end up being better suited to DE...we'll have to see him play more. I wouldn't rule him out starting at DE in base. In any case, he's not McClendon (who TT tried to sign) or Hampton as best we can tell at this stage.

Planning to run light across the D-Line, coupled with this crew of LBs, is begging to be steamrolled.

 

[AmishMafia]

Well, two reasons might be Ziggy Hood and Casey Hampton who played in front of Heyward and McClendon in 2012. Also, 2012 was the last season of PIT's full compliment of crushing LBs, something we don't have with our "finesse" crew.

Which highlights another point. We don't have a true NT under contract other than maybe Boyd, but he's awfully light for the position at 310 and might actually end up being better suited to DE...we'll have to see him play more. I wouldn't rule him out starting at DE in base. In any case, he's not McClendon (who TT tried to sign) or Hampton as best we can tell at this stage.

Planning to run light across the D-Line, coupled with this crew of LBs, is begging to be steamrolled.

Lets stick to one subject. You believe that a DE cannot be effective and a defense will suffer if said DE is under 290 lbs.

Couple of things: Keisel and Hood were the starters last season. Run defense was #2. Hood is 295 lbs. Ziggy hood played 7 of the games this season.

Now, are you telling me that Hood being replaced by a man 7 lbs lighter and playing for 9 games, caused the Pittsburgh defense to go from 2nd to 21st?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Lets stick to one subject. You believe that a DE cannot be effective and a defense will suffer if said DE is under 290 lbs.

I didn't say that.

 

[AmishMafia]

It was a leading question, given that the Pittsburgh guys were already listed. So, if you're happy with how the Steelers defended the run last season, then good for you.

Lets stick to one subject. You believe that a DE cannot be effective and a defense will suffer if said DE is under 290 lbs.

Couple of things: Keisel and Hood were the starters last season. Run defense was #2. Hood is 295 lbs. Ziggy hood played 7 of the games this season.

Now, are you telling me that Hood being replaced by a man 7 lbs lighter and playing for 9 games, caused the Pittsburgh defense to go from 2nd to 21st?

I didn't say that.

Wait, what? Did I misunderstand your posts? Your big 'trick' above when I proved there were other DEs smaller than ours, your retort was that was some indication I wanted a poor run defense like the Steelers. Therefore, the implication you were making is: smaller DEs will result in poor run defense.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Wait, what? Did I misunderstand your posts? Your big 'trick' above when I proved there were other DEs smaller than ours, your retort was that was some indication I wanted a poor run defense like the Steelers. Therefore, the implication you were making is: smaller DEs will result in poor run defense.

I'll make it as simple as I can.

If you're going to be a 290 lb. 3-4 DE playing in base then you need to play bigger than that on this team. Jones does not. If he did we wouldn't care what he weighs and we'd not have this discussion, but the fact is he's looked iffy at the point of attack and plays like a 290 lb. guy at best. That's why it's a topic of discussion. In fact, he looks remarkably similar to Mike Neal 1.0, and we know how that turned out.

If the Steelers dropped from 2nd. to the bottom 1/3 of the league because they lost players and got older in the back 7, while also switching out a couple of guys on the front line, that is very relevant. You can get away with certain deficiencies so long as you can compensate for them with other strengths. I guess I could repeat this until I'm blue in the face, but we do not have the surrounding personnel to get away with a small base front, or I should say more correctly, a base front that plays small in front of back 7 that plays small. Jones plays small.

Citing how few 3-4 base DEs play at a certain weight is intended to be indicative, because there aren't many exceptions and among those exceptions there are few with remarkable credentials. Exceptional talents are required to overcome the size differential. Jones has not shown that. We should expect more from a 1st. rounder.

If Jones were playing in place of Ray McDonald in SF, next to Dorsey and Smith, on a line where all the guys come in at or under 300, he might be just fine because they are backed by an All-Pro linebacking crew. We don't have that. Our D-Line guys need to play bigger.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

According to Ian Rapoport and Dan Hanzus of NFL.com the Packers are committed to rebuilding its defense in a way that best suits the philosophy of defensive coordinator Dom Capers. That means getting more athletic and versatile along the defensive line. The Packers want defensive linemen that better resemble Datone Jones, last year's first-round draft pick. Raji and Ryan Pickett are 330-pound behemoths who might no longer fit what the team wants to do.

Well, if that´s true we´ll find out pretty fast if Datone Jones can be an effective every down player in a 3-4.

 

[GeeDogWarrior]

How long did it take Cameron Hayward and Calias Campbell to fill in and figure out their roles in their respective team's 3-4 defense?

I recall Tony Pauline mentioning that it'd take Datone some time to get used to the "left-okie" role.

The guy got 3.5 sacks his rookie year - let him bulk up a bit, get another off-season full of reps - then watch him and Fat Walden step up and kick butt.

... or my optimism is completely wrong and we've been loading up on nothing but busts this whole time and wasting away Rodger's prime .