Dan Carpenter released by the Dolphins...

7thFloorRA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
2,573
Reaction score
331
Location
Grafton, WI
You have to separate real life and being on the team. Jolly has made the most out of his personal life and his 2nd chance on the field. Crosby is already said to be a great guy off the field. People don't care for his recent play on the field. He is in camp..he is probably the #1 right now and it can be argued that he should have been cut last year and this is a 2nd chance on the field.
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
I think Crosby didn't help the team last year because he's.... not very good. I might say bad.
 

GoPGo

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
150
Were you in favor of releasing him last year before the start of the season?
Of course he wouldn't have. But a guy goes in a slump and everyone hates him. There were people doing the same thing during Reggie Jackson's 0-35 slump in 1983 when he batted .192 too. Or how about when Ray Allen missed 18 consecutive 3 pointers during a 3-35 stretch 3 years ago? Should the Celtics have cut him? Nick Faldo once went something like 12 straight holes over par in the middle of his career. Should he have just hung it up? Slumps come and go.
 

lambeaulambo

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
699
Location
Rest Home
Did Crosby not help the team last night? What more could he have done?

Since Crosby had a bad year last year he can't help them this year? Lol.
My feeling is he will not help the team in the long run, that he will cost the team a game or two, or worse yet, a playoff game or super bowl.
 

lambeaulambo

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
699
Location
Rest Home
Of course he wouldn't have. But a guy goes in a slump and everyone hates him. There were people doing the same thing during Reggie Jackson's 0-35 slump in 1983 when he batted .192 too. Or how about when Ray Allen missed 18 consecutive 3 pointers during a 3-35 stretch 3 years ago? Should the Celtics have cut him? Nick Faldo once went something like 12 straight holes over par in the middle of his career. Should he have just hung it up? Slumps come and go.
problem is this is beyond a slump, it is going on 2 years with this inconsistency. In the NFL it usually spells doom for a kicker, but Crosby has the luxury of a coach that has loyalty like you seldom see.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Of course he wouldn't have. But a guy goes in a slump and everyone hates him. There were people doing the same thing during Reggie Jackson's 0-35 slump in 1983 when he batted .192 too. Or how about when Ray Allen missed 18 consecutive 3 pointers during a 3-35 stretch 3 years ago? Should the Celtics have cut him? Nick Faldo once went something like 12 straight holes over par in the middle of his career. Should he have just hung it up? Slumps come and go.

Reggie Jackson, Ray Allen and Nick Faldo are Hall of Fame caliber players. With the exception of one good season, Crosby has been ordinary at his best.
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
Were you in favor of releasing him last year before the start of the season?
I can't say for sure cuz I can't remember.
I do remember being mad at him for choking all his game-winning opportunities up to 2010, except his first ever game.
 

Shawnsta3

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,273
Reaction score
137
Location
Manawa & Shawano, WI
problem is this is beyond a slump, it is going on 2 years with this inconsistency. In the NFL it usually spells doom for a kicker, but Crosby has the luxury of a coach that has loyalty like you seldom see.
*1/2 year. Apart from family night I don't believe he's struggled this year. And he started last year out fine and finished it fine too. HE ONLY STRUGGLED FROM WEEK 5-13 LAST YEAR.

Yeah, he's got a coach with loyalty. He's the second, at the very least third best kicker the Packers have ever had who went through a half year slump, why wouldn't you wait that out?

Let me remind you this
· He's 10/12 in the playoffs, including seven straight made. Someone on here I know (but to lazy to find) likes to point out that he's not clutch. Those are good postseason numbers. Heck, that streak is the best in Packers history for the postseason by two kicks.

·Has the top three longest kicks in Packers history. Monster leg.

·Franchise record 23 consecutive field goals made

Listen, I could go on and on with reasons why he's only in a one half year slump and you take that away he's a Packers hall of famer. I'm hoping he'll show it this year. I don't think I have anymore to say on this kicking topic. I'll be looking forward to finding this thread in a few months from now and seeing who turned out right. Even if I'm wrong.
 
Last edited:

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
*1/2 year. Apart from family night I don't believe he's struggled this year. And he started last year out fine and finished it fine too. HE ONLY STRUGGLED FROM WEEK 5-13 LAST YEAR.

Yeah, he's got a coach with loyalty. He's the second, at the very least third best kicker the Packers have ever had who went through a half year slump, why wouldn't you wait that out?

Let me remind you this
· He's 10/12 in the playoffs, including seven straight made. Someone on here I know (but to lazy to find) likes to point out that he's not clutch. Those are good postseason numbers. Heck, that streak is the best in Packers history for the postseason by two kicks.

·Has the top three longest kicks in Packers history. Monster leg.

·Franchise record 23 consecutive field goals made

Listen, I could go on and on with reasons why he's only in a one half year slump and you take that away he's a Packers hall of famer. I'm hoping he'll show it this year. I don't think I have anymore to say on this kicking topic. I'll be looking forward to finding this thread in a few months from now and seeing who turned out right. Even if I'm wrong.

1) Every kicker in the NFL has good stretches and bad, even when they're going bad. To say he "only" struggled in Weeks 5-13 last year is, IMO, a little silly. Also, to say he is among the top 2-3 kickers is misleading and not a justification for keeping him. The kicking game in the NFL has evolved over the years, the top 30 NFL kickers in NFL history in accuracy contains almost all active kickers. 80% is not a benchmark anymore, it's an expectation.

2) The 10/12 playoff record is also a little misleading. Besides being a small sample, 7 of those 10 makes were from 31 yards or less. He's 2 of 4 from 40+.

3) Leg difference is also not markedly different from today's average NFL kicker. And with kickoffs now from the 35, it's much less of a factor for kickoffs. It does no good to have a monster leg when you're hitting 42% for your career from 50+.

4) I feel like you're comparing Crosby to NFL kickers on a historic level, which again I feel is misleading. I don't care about how Crosby kicks compared to kickers in the 60's and 70's when they were all kicking much more poorly. I care about how he kicks compared to the current field and kicker expectations.

And on that playing field, he profiles as a very below average kicker. There are 26 active QUALIFIED kickers (throwing out guys like Walsh and Tucker) with higher CAREER FG percentages than Crosby. It's not about one slump. Look at his career numbers and see he is one of the worst in the NFL compared to the average NFL kicker. Yet he is a top 5 paid kicker. That is not efficient and would not be acceptable at any other position. It's that simple and has nothing to do with a bad stretch from Week 5 to 13 last year.
 

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fg_perc_career.htm

Here are the kickers who currently kick in the NFL or are currently available to sign that have a higher career FG percentage than Crosby.

Dan Bailey
Alex Henery
Rob Bironas
Robbie Gould
Shayne Graham
Garrett Hartley
Matt Bryant
Connor Barth
Stephen Gostkowski
Phil Dawson
Adam Vinatieri
Jay Feely
Steven Hauschka
Dan Carpenter (free agent)
Lawrence Tynes
Ryan Succop
Josh Brown
Rian Lindell
Shaun Suisham
Mike Nugent
Olindo Mare
David Akers
Sebastian Janikowski
Josh Scobee
Matt Prater
Nick Folk

Also Blair Walsh and Justin Tucker, who were rookies last year so do not qualify, both were over 90%.

So that's 28 kickers, or essentially, almost every single other NFL team, that has a more accurate kicker than ours. I don't know what else to tell you to convince you that Crosby is an extremely overpaid, below average kicker -- if the stats won't, nothing will.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
adambrs -

We've been over this ground recently in considerable detail. I've made exactly the same points as yours. The best counter argument I've heard so far is that Crosby attempts more 50+ yard FGs than nearly all other kickers, driving down his career %.

Since I hold the opinion that kickers make their money from 30 - 49 yards, I think it's time to test this out...Crosby's career % from that range vs. other active players. I'm going to work with kickers with at least 2 years in the league who were active in 2012.

Bailey................41 - 43 / 95.3
Henery.............32 - 36 / 88.9
Hauschka.........44 - 51 / 86.3
Graham..........146 - 170/ 85.9
Bironas...........131 - 155 / 84.5
Barth.................63 - 75 / 84.0
Hanson........303 - 364 / 83.2
Bryant............144 - 173 / 83.2
Kaeding............97 - 117 / 82.9
Carpenter....81 - 98 / 82.7
Hartley..............32 - 39 / 82.1
Janikowski...188 - 230 / 81.7
Longwell.......225 - 278 / 80.9
Gould.............131 - 162 / 80.9
Gostkowski...103 - 128 / 80.5
Crosby........74 - 92 / 80.4 (excluding 2012)
Feeley...........190 - 237 / 80.2
Suisham........107 - 134 / 79.9
Mare.............199 - 249 / 79.9
Dawson.........162 - 204 / 79.4
Folk.................81 - 102 / 79.4
Succop...............61 - 77 / 79.2
Vinatieri.......238 - 304 / 78.3
Lindell...........155 - 198 / 78.3
Brown...........128 - 164 / 78.0
Akers.............216 - 277 / 78.0
Crosby........88 - 113 / 77.9 (including 2012)
Scobee...........113 - 147 / 76.9
Tynes..............98 - 128 / 76.6
Nugent............86 - 114 / 75.4
Prater...............65 - 88 / 73.9
Cundiff............87 - 119 / 73.1
Novak...............35 - 49 / 71.4
Gano.................35 - 49 / 71.4
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I conclude the following from the above data:

Crosby is at best a mediocre NFL kicker in the money zone (30 - 49 yards) when excluding 2012; far worse than average when including 2012. Since Crosby apologists argue, "every kicker has slumps", then the lower figure is more representative since I've not excluded the other guys' slump years.

As discussed previously, Crosby's career from 50+ is 42%, which is a below average figure...he might have a strong leg, but that's irrelevant if he is relatively inaccurate at distance.

Also noted previously, through Nov. 2010 Crosby had one game winning kick...in his first game as a Packer. By that time he had missed 3. Since then, I believe he had made one other game winner. How may game winners he missed in that time I could not say.

Summary:

- long but inaccurate from distance
- mediocre to poor in the money zone
- no claim to being clutch
- 6 year Packer, drawing fan loyalty for longevity (and the residual memory of that first game winner), until he's cut and then forgotten, whether this year or next
 

GoPGo

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
150
As discussed previously, Crosby's career from 50+ is 42%, which is a below average figure...he might have a strong leg, but that's irrelevant if he is relatively inaccurate at distance.

Unfortunately, without scouring every single game log, it's hard to know how many of those 50+ yard kicks were actually 55+ yard kicks. I can't find a site that makes that split. A lot of kickers never attempt a 55 yard FG. I don't know how many exactly, but we know that Crosby has tried a lot of kick in that range. 10 or more attempts wouldn't surprise me. That's going to have an effect on that 50+ percentage.
 

Oshkoshpackfan

YUT !!!
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
3,286
Reaction score
260
Location
Camp Lejeune NC
I find this kind of funny: Jolly went and did dangerous drugs multiple times, and everyone is rooting for him.
Mason Crosby struggled mightily for half a season and nobody seems to want to give him a second chance on this forum.

I don't know guys, it looked like he at least deserved a chance at a roster spot last night.. or was he really that bad? If I can remember right he's now made 22/24 kicks since family night?

First of all, that is not a good comparison. Jolly PAID HIS DUES.....he was out of the game for years. And it is not like he was smoking crack or **** or snorting coke, so C'mon now. Now Jolly is back and from HARD WORK and DEDICATION he is getting back to playing level. If crosby had even given two sh!ts about the game, he would have been kicking all day everyday in the off season.....I'd bet my paycheck that he didn't. Jolly never cost us games, crosby did.....jolly never cost us 30+ points, crosby did. Just wait till actual pressure of game time kicks in and crosby starts losing whats left of his weak mind and then you will see 2012 all over again.
 

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
Unfortunately, without scouring every single game log, it's hard to know how many of those 50+ yard kicks were actually 55+ yard kicks. I can't find a site that makes that split. A lot of kickers never attempt a 55 yard FG. I don't know how many exactly, but we know that Crosby has tried a lot of kick in that range. 10 or more attempts wouldn't surprise me. That's going to have an effect on that 50+ percentage.

So we're going to excuse Crosby's long-term FG percentage on the speculation, not knowledge, that he may have a higher percentage of FG's attempted from 55+ than other kickers. That is the very definition of grasping at straws.

And as previously mentioned, a strong leg does no good if you cannot hit from long range.
 

FrankRizzo

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
5,858
Reaction score
771
Location
Dallas
Mason Crosby sucks. He's never made a game-winner since his first game ever vs Philly.
His accuracy has always been subpar, even his fans can't deny that.

The common excuse I hear is that it's cold in Green Bay. Somehow Robbie Gould down the street in Chicago still makes em a lot more than Mason does though.

And what about winter wonderland Buffalo, where it's cold and windy?
They had a good kicker, but they drafted one of the studs this draft. And now they have decided they are going to roll with the rookie, they just released Rian Lindell. Another instant upgrade available.

Bills release K Rian Lindell.

Lindell is just 18 months removed from signing a four-year, $11 million extension, but his fate was likely sealed when the Bills used a sixth-round pick on Dustin Hopkins. Lindell was as accurate as ever last season, converting 21-of-24 field-goal attempts, but the Bills grew impatient with his weak leg. Lindell has made just five field goals of 50 yards or longer over the past five seasons.
 

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
Pure fiction. He's made nearly every kick he's attempted since Family Night.

Is this serious or joking? We are supposed to be impressed with Mason on the basis of literally 1 pre-season game and some practices?

If practice translated over to regular season games, we wouldn't even be having this discussion that we've been having for 2 years now.
 

adambr2

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
609
They released Lindell for a weak leg, but yet he's still more effective for his career from that range (19 for 35) than Crosby (14 for 33).

I'd prefer Carpenter who is younger and has nearly the same FG percentage from 40 to 49 yards (75.8%) as Mason has for his career anywhere on the field (76.8%). He actually is the guy that has been money for his career that had one bad year.

The "strong leg" argument on Crosby is so overblown. He can't hit from long range anyway, so what's the point? Just kickoffs, and you can use Masthay if you want to, who has just of a strong leg on kickoffs as Crosby.

Just give me a guy who can be very consistent from under 50. I don't want us passing on 4th and 2's from the 35 to try 53 yard FG's with our offense anyway.
 

Oshkoshpackfan

YUT !!!
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
3,286
Reaction score
260
Location
Camp Lejeune NC
Lindell had tougher kicking conditions in buffalo, that is a fact. If you have ever been there in the winter, you know what I mean. That cold is colder and more bone chilling than GB and the wind is way worse. Plus they get much more of that lake effect snow that is blinding. I would say he has been weather tested.
 

Shawnsta3

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,273
Reaction score
137
Location
Manawa & Shawano, WI
The point I'm trying to get across is if you were in favor of cutting Crosby before this past season, than go ahead and cut him. If you weren't in favor of cutting him, than you shouldn't now because of the slump that I believe is behind him.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Top