Could we see it again this year?

[Deleted member 6794]

Rarely do you see Shields if at all in the slot that's the thing. I would like to see him in the slot because that's where I expect to see Harvin but that's where Hayward lines up so I can't see Shields being his shadow.

That´s only true if the Packers play zone defense. If you want to have Shields cover Harvin most of the time the defense has to play man coverage. I agree though that Shields rarely lines up in the slot.

 

[rodell330]

That´s only true if the Packers play zone defense. If you want to have Shields cover Harvin most of the time the defense has to play man coverage. I agree though that Shields rarely lines up in the slot.

I'm agreeing. We need to play man for Shields to shadow Harvin the only thing with that tho is where do you put Hayward? You're less as likely to see him on the outside than shields in the slot. As much as I like Hayward he can't run with Harvin which means more zone.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm agreeing. We need to play man for Shields to shadow Harvin the only thing with that tho is where do you put Hayward? As much as I like Hayward he can't run with Harvin which means more zone.

If you play Shields in man coverage on Harvin he will follow him no matter where he lines up. This means Hayward won´t have to cover him at all. In that case it makes sense to assign Hayward to man cover the third receiver in the nickel package.

You're less as likely to see him on the outside than shields in the slot.

It´s a misconception that Hayward can´t play outside. He actually lined up for more than 20% of his snaps on the outside during his rookie season recording four of his six INTs while doing so.

 

[SoonerPack]

Rarely do you see Shields if at all in the slot that's the thing. I would like to see him in the slot because that's where I expect to see Harvin but that's where Hayward lines up so I can't see Shields being his shadow.

I don't disagree with you statement but I also think that just because we haven't seen it before doesn't mean we won't. I understand that 29 has worked primarily in the slot but that in no way means he can't work on the edge. Look, I am not a scout but I think I have a pretty decent eye for talent and I think Casey can be as good as he wants. I don't see any reason why he can't take over Tramon's spot once he leaves and thrive. He is a student of the game and what he lacks in burning speed he makes up for with angles, technique and sick ball skills. I am not comparing 29 to Revis Island by any means but Revis never had that elite speed either and in his prime was flat out nasty. I do see some similarities in them though from body type to ball skills. Again, I am not stupid enough to say he is the next "great one" but six picks in his rookie campaign and just the way he carries himself bodes awfully well for his future and the Packs as well. If you haven't noticed I love me some 29 and think he will go down as one of Ted's best hidden gems. Man, I am so ready for some ball!!!

 

[SoonerPack]

If you play Shields in man coverage on Harvin he will follow him no matter where he lines up. This means Hayward won´t have to cover him at all. In that case it makes sense to assign Hayward to man cover the third receiver in the nickel package.



It´s a misconception that Hayward can´t play outside. He actually lined up for more than 20% of his snaps on the outside during his rookie season recording four of his six INTs while doing so.

We are on the same page today bro. Maybe I should click on the "new messages" icon when it pops up I guess but whatever, just so happens we both think the same way on this topic. I for one hope we are right!

 

[brandon2348]

I think you´re making a fool out of yourself trying to make the Seahawks defense look bad over and over again.

I'm not saying the Seahawks defense is horrible. I think we match up great against them. You can run on them if you have the right scheme. Like I said I will take our right side O-line matched up against there Left defensively all day long. We have the best run blocking guard tandem in the NFL along with Bulaga coming back at Right Tackle. Lacy is just getting started.

I think your discrediting how good this Packer offense is going to be.

 

[brandon2348]

Packer go over the 18 barring major turnovers and this whole game comes down to not allowing the Seahawks to get pressure with 4 on Rodgers and effectively running the football which will set up play action. I see Packers scoring 27-28 points.

Oh yeah. the replacement reffs cant show up either.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not saying the Seahawks defense is horrible. I think we match up great against them. You can run on them if you have the right scheme. Like I said I will take our right side O-line matched up against there Left defensively all day long. We have the best run blocking guard tandem in the NFL along with Bulaga coming back at Right Tackle. Lacy is just getting started.

I think your discrediting how good this Packer offense is going to be.

The Packers offense will be great in 2014, that doesn´t mean though we´ll be able to put up points vs. the Seahawks defense easily.

We don´t have the best run blocking guard tandem in the league, the Eagles do in Evan Mathis and Todd Herremans.

 

[brandon2348]

The Packers offense will be great in 2014, that doesn´t mean though we´ll be able to put up points vs. the Seahawks defense easily.

We don´t have the best run blocking guard tandem in the league, the Eagles do in Evan Mathis and Todd Herremans.

It's debatable on the Guard tandems. Bottom line is ours are great. Were never going to agree on this one as I don't see Seahawks D-line being what it was last year overall and I am not buying this "Jessie trick knee Williams" and "Jordan done nothing Hill" you keep bringing up replacing proven guys that teams payed big $ for.

Were going to have to wait a few months for this one and I cant wait. I think it's disrespectful to make Pack 5.5-6 point dogs with Aaron Rodgers and team healthy. I don't care if its at there annoying stadium.

Obviously I am a Packer homer but I have never been this excited about the offense and there have been some pretty good offenses. Just please no freak injuries during training camp and we are going to be alright.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's debatable on the Guard tandems. Bottom line is ours are great.

Lang is a decent run blocker, but by no means a great one. You would have a hard time finding anyone around the league not agreeing with me that Philly´s guard are the best in that regard.

Were never going to agree on this one as I don't see Seahawks D-line being what it was last year overall and I am not buying this "Jessie trick knee Williams" and "Jordan done nothing Hill" you keep bringing up replacing proven guys that teams payed big $ for.

Were going to have to wait a few months for this one and I cant wait. I think it's disrespectful to make Pack 5.5-6 point dogs with Aaron Rodgers and team healthy. I don't care if its at there annoying stadium.

It seems like we won´t be able to agree on this topic so I would suggest to revisit it on Sept. 5. Don´t get me wrong though, I would like the Packers to prove me wrong, but right now I don´t see it happening.

 

[brandon2348]

Lang is a decent run blocker, but by no means a great one. You would have a hard time finding anyone around the league not agreeing with me that Philly´s guard are the best in that regard.



It seems like we won´t be able to agree on this topic so I would suggest to revisit it on Sept. 5. Don´t get me wrong though, I would like the Packers to prove me wrong, but right now I don´t see it happening.

Oh yes. We will revisit it Sept. 5th.

 

[TJV]

The one thing of which I am certain is Capers won’t cover Harvin in the same way, play after play. IMO Hayward, Williams, or ??? can cover him with safety help. If I’m not mistaken, the Packers added a safety that just may be up for the job.

As for how many points the Packers score on opening day, I'm hoping for one more than the Seahawks, no matter the number. And as good as I am hoping the Packers' offense to be, I won't mind if the defense and STs chime in with a score or two.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The one thing of which I am certain is Capers won’t cover Harvin in the same way, play after play. IMO Hayward, Williams, or ??? can cover him with safety help. If I’m not mistaken, the Packers added a safety that just may be up for the job.

I don´t think it would be a good idea to cover Harvin with anyone else than Shields. None of the other guys is fast enough to do that. Clinton-Dix will for sure be asked to provide help over the top though.

As for how many points the Packers score on opening day, I'm hoping for one more than the Seahawks, no matter the number.

Absolutely agree with that.

 

[TJV]

I don´t think it would be a good idea to cover Harvin with anyone else than Shields. None of the other guys is fast enough to do that. Clinton-Dix will for sure be asked to provide help over the top though.

We disagree on this. Hayward, for example, has displayed great instincts. DBs with great instincts can make up for a lack of speed with those instincts. One of the reasons I'm optimistic about Clinton-Dix is the reports say he also has very good instincts. If true that will make up for a lack of straight-line speed. IOW, I prefer a safety whose first step is correct to one with greater speed whose first step isn't. (In an extreme example consider the 40 times of a safety with elite speed who begins the dash taking one step back vs. an average speed safety who doesn't.)

Anyway, I'd be comfortable with having Hayward and Clinton-Dix covering Harvin under/over. But not consistently. IMO the NFL offenses are too complex and capable of taking advantage of a defense that uses the same coverage, even on just one receiver, for an entire game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We disagree on this. Hayward, for example, has displayed great instincts. DBs with great instincts can make up for a lack of speed with those instincts. One of the reasons I'm optimistic about Clinton-Dix is the reports say he also has very good instincts. If true that will make up for a lack of straight-line speed. IOW, I prefer a safety whose first step is correct to one with greater speed whose first step isn't. (In an extreme example consider the 40 times of a safety with elite speed who begins the dash taking one step back vs. an average speed safety who doesn't.)

I agree that a corner or safety can make up for a lack of speed with great instincts.

Anyway, I'd be comfortable with having Hayward and Clinton-Dix covering Harvin under/over. But not consistently. IMO the NFL offenses are too complex and capable of taking advantage of a defense that uses the same coverage, even on just one receiver, for an entire game.

I think we should cover Harvin with the best corner (Shields) on the team the entire game, especially as the Seahawks don´t have a lot of other weapons at the position. Shutdown CBs can be matched up with a single receiver most of the time.

 

[rodell330]

The ideal of shadowing Harvin with Shields is highly unlikely. 1 Harvin hardly ventures outside the slot, and 2 shields doesn't play in the slot. I think he should like the top corners do but I'm not the coach.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The ideal of shadowing Harvin with Shields is highly unlikely. 1 Harvin hardly ventures outside the slot, and 2 shields doesn't play in the slot. I think he should like the top corners do but I'm not the coach.

It´s tough to guess how the Seahawks will use Harvin cause he didn´t play a lot last season, but he lined up outside for approximately 40% of the snaps for the Vikings during his last two seasons in Minnesota though. Assuming he´ll only play in the slot isn´t an accurate assumption.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

We may be getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Even with the replenished receiving corp, do you think the offense will score more points than the 2011 version (35ppg)? Or more points than the 2013 Broncos (37.9ppg)? Don’t get me wrong, I expect this year’s offense to be prolific and certainly good enough to win it all if injuries don’t decimate the team for a change. Preseason optimism is great but no offense is unstoppable as the 2011 and 2013 seasons showed.

The receiving core certainly has been replenished but to what degree we just don’t know yet. I got a laugh out of the 6-WR formation suggestion but IMO that joking suggestion points to an important consideration. My question would not be how often we’ll see the big 5 formation but rather, how often should the Packers go empty backfield? While we hope and expect that the receiving corp has been replenished, we know the RB position is as strong and deep as it’s been in the Thompson/McCarthy tenure. Previously if Rodgers handed the ball off on third and long it was perceived by some as giving up on that series. That’s not the case anymore and it’s not just because of Lacy. The other backs are capable of ripping off a long run when the D is set up to stop the pass.

Why is this important? Because even if healthy, there are questions about the Packers’ OL. In the 5 regular seasons Rodgers has started all the games (or nearly all), he has been sacked 50 or more times twice. Last season he was on pace for more than 40. Those stats don’t take into account the number of times he’s been hit and knocked down. So except for hail Mary’s and third and 12-15+ yards, I would rather not see an empty backfield - and perhaps not even then. I would rather not invite the defense to go after Rodgers more than they will anyway.

Outstanding point. Need to balance a prolific offense with protecting the guy who pretty much makes it all click. Last year should be a good reminder that Rodgers has to get more pprotection. The record when he was out speaks for itself. I hope we have enough O line talent in place to do a much better job than the last few seasons. All that firepower means nothing without Rodgers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Outstanding point. Need to balance a prolific offense with protecting the guy who pretty much makes it all click. Last year should be a good reminder that Rodgers has to get more pprotection. The record when he was out speaks for itself. I hope we have enough O line talent in place to do a much better job than the last few seasons. All that firepower means nothing without Rodgers.

On the play Rodgers got injured he scrambled out of the pocket, nothing the OL could have done about it. I think the improved running game as well as Bulaga coming back will result in better protection for Rodgers.

 

[OCBP]

Not sure why there's so much Harvin discussion. Likely he will be on the sidelines with a headache.

Hope all are enjoying the Holiday weekend!

 

[brandon2348]

It´s tough to guess how the Seahawks will use Harvin cause he didn´t play a lot last season, but he lined up outside for approximately 40% of the snaps for the Vikings during his last two seasons in Minnesota though. Assuming he´ll only play in the slot isn´t an accurate assumption.

40 percent of the snaps outside at Minnesota. LOL. Well the guy played 68 total snaps last year.

Not sure why there's so much Harvin discussion. Likely he will be on the sidelines with a headache.

Hope all are enjoying the Holiday weekend!

Exactly, the real discussion should be is Harvin going to make it through training camp without getting hurt. Him and there new 170 pound receiver that already hurt his shoulder playing catch at rookie camp.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

40 percent of the snaps outside at Minnesota. LOL. Well the guy played 68 total snaps last year.

That´s why I said it´s tough to evaluate how the Seahawks will use him.

He has proven at Minnesota in 2011 and 2012 (don´t know what the total number of snaps last season has to do with that) that he can play outside as well though. He lined up there for 38.4% of his routes and had 47% of his total of 149 receptions while doing so.

 

[yooperpackfan]

On the play Rodgers got injured he scrambled out of the pocket, nothing the OL could have done about it. I think the improved running game as well as Bulaga coming back will result in better protection for Rodgers.

Was he scrambling out of the pocket because his protection broke down?
I don't recall.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Was he scrambling out of the pocket because his protection broke down?
I don't recall.

I think Rodgers would have been able to throw the ball without getting hit at the time he decided to scramble, there was no receiver open in the end zone though (remember it was 3rd-and-goal).

 

[FrankRizzo]

By the way, someone earlier mentioned how Bulaga back was going to be a difference-maker.
If I recall correctly, Bulaga was healthy last time we played these guys, and he gave up like 4 sacks.

Think some might have a tendency to overrate the memory of Bulaga perhaps.