Comparison, Saints and Packers

SaintItSweet

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 14, 2011
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Did I say they weren't? I'm saying these stats that are being posted in favor of the Saints are skewed because of blowout games against teams where they ran up the score.

Watch the games again, bud. Brees left in the late 3rd quarter vs the Colts, and we went run-run-run with our backup QB.

Also watch the Giants game. We went run-run-run in the 4th qtr as well. That Ingram broke off a 35 yard touchdown while running is nobody's fault. The Saints ain't Belicheat/Brady, we don't pass while up 40. Besides, speaking of passing while up 40. Matt Flynn and Rodgers were throwing on the Raiders in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the game was already well out of reach. What say you?

But hey, If you want to be juvenile we can say the the Packers have 20 more turnovers than the Saints, and the only reason Rodgers has 7 more touchdowns is due to 20 more opportunities to score on short fields.

Quarterback-e-peenery aside: The reality is time will tell who is the better QB. This year it is darn well close and if the teams do play each other in the playoffs.. it will be a good one.
 

Southpaw

Endorphin Junkie
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Messages
1,164
Reaction score
244
Location
PA
Watch the games again, bud. Brees left in the late 3rd quarter vs the Colts, and we went run-run-run with our backup QB.

Brees had 5 touchdowns before he was pulled out of the Colts game. I'm not sure you understand what running up the score means.

Also watch the Giants game. We went run-run-run in the 4th qtr as well. That Ingram broke off a 35 yard touchdown while running is nobody's fault. The Saints ain't Belicheat/Brady, we don't pass while up 40. Besides, speaking of passing while up 40. Matt Flynn and Rodgers were throwing on the Raiders in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the game was already well out of reach. What say you?

Out of reach against the Raiders and out of reach against the hapless Colts are two different things. No lead is safe and no game is out of reach with a 31st ranked defense, like ours.

And Rodgers was throwing we were up by 31, not 40.

What do back up QB 's throwing have to do with comparing two starting QB's? We are talking about how running up the score affects the stats of Rodgers/Brees not Flynn/Daniel
 

ivo610

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
16,588
Reaction score
2,250
Location
Madison
Brees is no good in cold weather. This is a little stat from Dec 5 of 09. I went and looked and since this stat he has won one game in Dec or January when he has to play outside in the elements.

"Since 2005, Brees is 0-5 in games where the temperature at kickoff was less than 45 degrees. That includes the postseason and Brees’ passer rating dips to 79.0 in cold-weather games."

Conversely, we have a QB who has the strength to not only throw accurately on the run, but he can cut thru the wind. If the Saints come marching into Lambeau on January 22 this saint going to be a shootout in balmy weather like the opener.

I remember similar talk of Michael Vick and everyone dismissing their chances at Lambeau.

Of all the teams in the NFC the Saints are really the only challenge for the Pack.

NFC championship (which mostly likely wont be packers saints, when was the last time an NFC championship game was #1 vs #2?) spread would be about 4 I would guess.
 

ivo610

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
16,588
Reaction score
2,250
Location
Madison
Its too bad that Brees is having one of his best seasons ever and it hardly gets noticed.
 

Kitten

Feline Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
5,120
Reaction score
1,227
Location
Philly/ South Jersey area
The Packers and Saints are a lot more similar than they are different. I think some of us are seriously underestimating Brees and the Saints offense. I won't pick too much at the Saint's D when our own D is still trying to polish themselves up, but offensively, come on, I don't think there are two better offenses in the league right now than the Packers and Saints. I strongly think the NFC Championship game is going to come down to the Packers and Saints and I think the game is going to be an all out lights out war on offense. QB Duel. Rodgers Vs Brees. My bet is the team with the better performing QB will win that game. I still think the Packers are the better team, I don't care much for stats, I find them to be misleading. But, I really think if these two teams meet in the NFC Championship, the Saints might present a greater challenge to the Packers than the SB itself.
 

Forget Favre

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
9,115
Reaction score
1,807
I don't know, I wasn't really trying to suggest that the Saints have "better" stats than the Pack -- just that they are very similar in stats, both in terms of strengths and weaknesses. I am sure that one could go deeper and point out differences they deem more meaningfull. Again, the biggest difference I see is the advantage GB has on defense in turnovers -- particularly interceptions.
Oh. I thought you were bragging.
My bad.
 

Forget Favre

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
9,115
Reaction score
1,807
Its too bad that Brees is having one of his best seasons ever and it hardly gets noticed.
That's because he's not Tim Tebow or Aaron Rodgers.

Before the season started I asked about elite quarterbacks and I wasn't sure if Drew Brees was for the reasons you mentioned.
The majority thinks Drew Brees is elite.
I suppose he is but can a qb keep on being thought of as elite if he doesn't win another super bowl?
 

Jules

The Colts Fan
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
2,769
Reaction score
614
I still kinda think at times this eerily reminds me of Pats/Colts 2004. Pats were defending champs and won a close SB opener to the Colts who could have even won the thing. Then the hot offensively loaded Colts went into Foxboro in January and got smashed. Not saying history repeats itself but it's an example that has stuck in the back of my mind at times this year.
 

ExpatPacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
227
Location
A Galaxy Far, Far Away
Its too bad that Brees is having one of his best seasons ever and it hardly gets noticed.

That's not true anymore. In the first half of the season Rodgers was clearly the best and Packers were the defending SB champions. Then came Tebow. Brees' performance in the second half of the season has gotten him plenty of praise and attention.
 

ExpatPacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
227
Location
A Galaxy Far, Far Away
That's because he's not Tim Tebow or Aaron Rodgers.

Before the season started I asked about elite quarterbacks and I wasn't sure if Drew Brees was for the reasons you mentioned.
The majority thinks Drew Brees is elite.
I suppose he is but can a qb keep on being thought of as elite if he doesn't win another super bowl?

Of course. Dan Marino. Plus the fact is that Brees has won a SB already.
 

bozz_2006

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,576
Reaction score
283
Location
Grand Forks, ND
At this point what I see tipping the game the Packers way is the Saints D-line. Our offensive line has had to deal with two major injury losses the last 4-6 weeks. Newhouse and EDS have been holding it together, but barely. The fact that the Saints have such a poor pass rush is what could allow Aaron to dissect them.
 

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,356
Reaction score
4,086
Location
Milwaukee
Watch the games again, bud. Brees left in the late 3rd quarter vs the Colts, and we went run-run-run with our backup QB.

Also watch the Giants game. We went run-run-run in the 4th qtr as well. That Ingram broke off a 35 yard touchdown while running is nobody's fault. The Saints ain't Belicheat/Brady, we don't pass while up 40. Besides, speaking of passing while up 40. Matt Flynn and Rodgers were throwing on the Raiders in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the game was already well out of reach. What say you?

But hey, If you want to be juvenile we can say the the Packers have 20 more turnovers than the Saints, and the only reason Rodgers has 7 more touchdowns is due to 20 more opportunities to score on short fields.

Quarterback-e-peenery aside: The reality is time will tell who is the better QB. This year it is darn well close and if the teams do play each other in the playoffs.. it will be a good one.

My dad can beat up your dad
 

realcaliforniacheese

A-Rods Boss
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
2,278
Reaction score
708
Location
Yucaipa, Ca
I remember similar talk of Michael Vick and everyone dismissing their chances at Lambeau.

Of all the teams in the NFC the Saints are really the only challenge for the Pack.

NFC championship (which mostly likely wont be packers saints, when was the last time an NFC championship game was #1 vs #2?) spread would be about 4 I would guess.
I feel Giant's will be the biggest threat to us. If they come into lambeau with that D line healthy they could create all kinds of havoc in the backfield.
 

PackersRS

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
969
Location
Porto Alegre, Brazil
I've been saying since preseason that the Saints are the 2nd best team in football.

Couple of things.

First, the one you mentioned, turnovers. It's HUGE. Our offense has always been very careful with the ball, yours seems to take better care of it this season, but our defense is the best I've ever seen at forcing turnovers, and the winner of the turnover battle usually ends up winning the game.

And the second thing is homefield advantage. Yes, I do think that the crowd makes a difference, and I do think that the weather makes a difference in our favor (you do have a better running game, but Rodgers' arm is much better than Brees, we have the advantage in there. But it's not only the offense, our D plays better in bad weather than yours). But the real key in homefield advantage is the refs. The home team almost always ends up favored by calls.

If we played at NO, you guys would be favored IMHO (not by much, I like our chances in domes). But at Lambeau, against our team, it'll be an uphill battle. Not saying it's a done deal, not even close, but we do have a better chance of winning.
 

PackersRS

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
969
Location
Porto Alegre, Brazil
I feel Giant's will be the biggest threat to us. If they come into lambeau with that D line healthy they could create all kinds of havoc in the backfield.
Only if we play a game as sloppy as that one at NY, with 5+ dropped passes and a terrible outing by the D. And even then, playing at Lambeau gives us the edge.

I'm not concerned about NY one bit. Yes, they have a terrific DL, and Eli has become an elite QB. But he's still good for at least 2 WTF throws per game, and their secondary is still abysmal. I like our chances.
 

realcaliforniacheese

A-Rods Boss
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
2,278
Reaction score
708
Location
Yucaipa, Ca
Only if we play a game as sloppy as that one at NY, with 5+ dropped passes and a terrible outing by the D. And even then, playing at Lambeau gives us the edge.

I'm not concerned about NY one bit. Yes, they have a terrific DL, and Eli has become an elite QB. But he's still good for at least 2 WTF throws per game, and their secondary is still abysmal. I like our chances.
Remember our whole attack is predicated on Aroge being upright. That D line was beat up when we played them. Granted we were sloppy but our O line is beat up and a healthy Giants D Line could bring our scoring machine to a halt.

If we can nullify their pass rush then no worries.
 

PackersRS

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
969
Location
Porto Alegre, Brazil
Remember our whole attack is predicated on Aroge being upright. That D line was beat up when we played them. Granted we were sloppy but our O line is beat up and a healthy Giants D Line could bring our scoring machine to a halt.

If we can nullify their pass rush then no worries.
They were only missing Umenyiora, who IMHO is soft. JPP and Tuck are 10x better than him, and with Umenyiora their idiot DC would put JPP at DT, where he's not nearly as good. And, like you said, our OL was beat up. We figure to get Sitton back if not for Sunday against the Bears for certain. And Clifton has a good chance of coming back for the playoffs.

And, again, playing at home, you can bet that almost any contact with Rodgers will result in a roughing the passer penalty. And with bad weather their rush gets slowed down, which means their CBs will have to hold up longer, and it'll be even worse for them, because they'll be slipping. People say that bad weather is worse for the O but McCarthy always say it's the opposite, because the offensive players know where they're going and they can set their balance properly. The bad thing for the O is throwing the ball, but Rodgers doesn't have a problem with grip and with arm strenght (another reason I LOVE our chances against the 49ers and their midget-handed QB).

And also, if we catch at least 2 of those 5 drops, the game is not as close.
 

ivo610

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
16,588
Reaction score
2,250
Location
Madison
I've been saying since preseason that the Saints are the 2nd best team in football.

Couple of things.

First, the one you mentioned, turnovers. It's HUGE. Our offense has always been very careful with the ball, yours seems to take better care of it this season, but our defense is the best I've ever seen at forcing turnovers, and the winner of the turnover battle usually ends up winning the game.

And the second thing is homefield advantage. Yes, I do think that the crowd makes a difference, and I do think that the weather makes a difference in our favor (you do have a better running game, but Rodgers' arm is much better than Brees, we have the advantage in there. But it's not only the offense, our D plays better in bad weather than yours). But the real key in homefield advantage is the refs. The home team almost always ends up favored by calls.

If we played at NO, you guys would be favored IMHO (not by much, I like our chances in domes). But at Lambeau, against our team, it'll be an uphill battle. Not saying it's a done deal, not even close, but we do have a better chance of winning.
I remember people asking if we would better better off without home field advantage in the playoffs. I know we are good in a dome but going into the superdome during a playoff game? I'll pass.
 

realcaliforniacheese

A-Rods Boss
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
2,278
Reaction score
708
Location
Yucaipa, Ca
They were only missing Umenyiora, who IMHO is soft. JPP and Tuck are 10x better than him, and with Umenyiora their idiot DC would put JPP at DT, where he's not nearly as good. And, like you said, our OL was beat up. We figure to get Sitton back if not for Sunday against the Bears for certain. And Clifton has a good chance of coming back for the playoffs.

And, again, playing at home, you can bet that almost any contact with Rodgers will result in a roughing the passer penalty. And with bad weather their rush gets slowed down, which means their CBs will have to hold up longer, and it'll be even worse for them, because they'll be slipping. People say that bad weather is worse for the O but McCarthy always say it's the opposite, because the offensive players know where they're going and they can set their balance properly. The bad thing for the O is throwing the ball, but Rodgers doesn't have a problem with grip and with arm strenght (another reason I LOVE our chances against the 49ers and their midget-handed QB).

And also, if we catch at least 2 of those 5 drops, the game is not as close.
Defiantly agree about the drops. there has been more than one game this season that several perfect throws were dropped that would have changed the game dramatically. Lions game is the first that comes to mind. Drop the easy catches and make the most acrobatic ones. what a bunch of highlight hounds.:D
 

PackersRS

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
969
Location
Porto Alegre, Brazil
Definatly agree about the drops. there has been more than one game this season that several perfect throws were dropped that would have changed the game dramaticly. Lions game is the first that comes to mind. Drop the easy catches and make the most acrobatic ones. what a bunch of highlight hounds.:D
The only guy that is catching everything thrown at him is Jordy, who IMHO is currently the best receiver on our team and a top 3 WR in the league (http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/2011-season-receiving-plusminus)

AAAND with that I just jinxed him. You can blame me for any drops he might have.
 

realcaliforniacheese

A-Rods Boss
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
2,278
Reaction score
708
Location
Yucaipa, Ca

CarolinaPackerFan

Packers fan in Panthers country
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
174
Reaction score
44
Location
North Carolina
The Packers and Saints are a lot more similar than they are different. I think some of us are seriously underestimating Brees and the Saints offense. I won't pick too much at the Saint's D when our own D is still trying to polish themselves up, but offensively, come on, I don't think there are two better offenses in the league right now than the Packers and Saints. I strongly think the NFC Championship game is going to come down to the Packers and Saints and I think the game is going to be an all out lights out war on offense. QB Duel. Rodgers Vs Brees. My bet is the team with the better performing QB will win that game. I still think the Packers are the better team, I don't care much for stats, I find them to be misleading. But, I really think if these two teams meet in the NFC Championship, the Saints might present a greater challenge to the Packers than the SB itself.
I agree with this post except unless the Saints get the 2nd seed, they might not make the NFCCG. If they have to travel to San Fran(Depending on the weather) then we might be facing the 49ers instead.
 

PackPackPackers

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
159
Reaction score
24
Watch the games again, bud. Brees left in the late 3rd quarter vs the Colts, and we went run-run-run with our backup QB.

Also watch the Giants game. We went run-run-run in the 4th qtr as well. That Ingram broke off a 35 yard touchdown while running is nobody's fault. The Saints ain't Belicheat/Brady, we don't pass while up 40. Besides, speaking of passing while up 40. Matt Flynn and Rodgers were throwing on the Raiders in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the game was already well out of reach. What say you?

But hey, If you want to be juvenile we can say the the Packers have 20 more turnovers than the Saints, and the only reason Rodgers has 7 more touchdowns is due to 20 more opportunities to score on short fields.

Quarterback-e-peenery aside: The reality is time will tell who is the better QB. This year it is darn well close and if the teams do play each other in the playoffs.. it will be a good one.

God...stop trolling. Before you even talk about the Saints trying to beat the Packers, why don't you be more humble....

Seriously, I am not even sure if the Saints can beat the 49ers...
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top