Coaching The Defense

El Guapo

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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...monday-at-a-glance-b99332956z1-271782491.html
On Monday, the Packers whipped through four periods totaling about 20 plays in the defensive portion of 11-on-11. The offense was running plays from cards either drawn from the repertoire of Oakland, the opponent Friday night, or Seattle, the opponent Sept. 4. In the second period, the scout-team unit hit the No. 1 defense with a pair of big plays that just shouldn't happen. On the first, Sheppard managed to get behind Sam Shields on a takeoff route and Matt Flynn hit him about 30 yards down field. On the second play, White got deep behind Casey Hayward and Scott Tolzien delivered a 35-yard strike that would have been a 99-yard touchdown if the ball had been on the 1. It's interesting. This defensive staff led by coordinatorDom Capers doesn't say much after a play, either good or bad. Really, there isn't time. MikeMcCarthy's practices are all about tempo. The "corrections," as McCarthy often describes it, are made later in the tape room where it's plain as day to see.
I know that McCarthy isn't a big yeller and neither is Capers, but the author (above) seems to be strongly hinting that there is not enough accountability in practice for mistakes. I'm a little indifferent in general, believing that there is not one correct strategy for coaching. However, when something isn't working (such as our defense) then its a little easier for me to look at issues like this and wonder if there is some truth to it.

Thoughts? Should the Packers coaches be more in-your-face about mistakes in practice? I assume that the overall answer will be yes, but I find it hard to believe that there is never any feedback in practice. Something about this report is a little fishy to me.
 
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Some years back Mike McCarthy was named coach of the year and then he went and coached the Packers to victory in a Super Bowl . The man knows his business and the people who work for him . The questionable people are TT & MM , it's more difficult to cook a great meal when you don't do the shopping. I'm not sure that Coach McCarthy can hire and fire staff . TT selects the players , does he also select Coach McCarthy's staff too .
 

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From what I've read, McCarthy isn't shy about letting people know what he thinks, often with colorful language. I like the fact it's behind closed doors, and I imagine most of his assistants follow his lead. As far as personnel and coaching moves, it's my feeling that Thompson doesn't do anything unless McCarthy is in agreement. For instance, it's my opinion the QB soon to be in the HOF was let go primarily because MM had made up his mind we had a better chance of winning with Rogers. Thompson then took the heat from the fans when he refused to play the "release me" game. Just my opinion, but it made me like TT all the more.
 

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It's difficult to know what works best regarding yelling in practice in today's NFL. Even back in Lombardi's day with all the screaming on the practice field and sidelines, players talked about dreading the film session afterward in which Lombardi was a fierce grader. For example (and I use this as an excuse to retell this story) in the 1966 championship (the year before the Ice Bowl), near the end of the game, the Cowboys had a fourth and goal from the Packers 2-yard line with a chance to tie or win. Dave Robinson pressured QB Don Meredith into an INT by Tom Brown in the end zone. According to Robinson while he was being congratulated by teammates in the locker room, Lombardi growled at him, “You weren’t supposed to be blitzing.” Vince later hugged him on the plane and said it was the game-winning play. Still in the film session Robinson got a minus-2 for that play. IMO a big part of Lombardi’s success was he was a master psychologist. That’s still important today IMO: Some players need a kick in the *** and others thrive on encouragement. I don’t think it matters much if that happens at practice or behind closed doors.
 

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I think MM knows what he's doing. I mean look at how he changed the running game around last year. And this year he said he was determined to turn around the defense. Plus, when you are around guys for as much as the players and coaches are, sometimes the coach can get what he's thinking across to a player with something as simple as a look. I'm optimistic about the defense this year but I guess we won't know for sure until the rubber hits the road.
 

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I will say that when you get a group of manly men together. You must treat each other with respect. The days of Lombardi and ruling with an iron fist are gone. Packers put it simply that we are looking for self motivated men. If you lose that motivation, you lose your job. Greenbay is known for passing up flashy guys or even more physically gifted guys, for character guys who are self motivated team players... Now that THAT is squared up. No screaming needed to help motivate anymore. All we are trying to do is correct mistakes at that point. Business is business, and emotions are not involved. If mistakes happen over and over, their personal grade will be effected. And greenbay will find another manly man to take your spot...

You dont want to mess with their zen, or you wont be evaluating their best. imo
 

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I'm sure whenever a corner with a brand new $39 million dollar deal gets beat buy a WR who has little chance of making the team, he hears about it from the coaches.

Plus, upping the tempo in practice and keeping things moving is more similar to a game.
 

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Speaking of screamers, I wonder how Kevin Greene's absence has affected the OLBs, if at all. He was very vocal but I think he was almost always using positive motivation. Speaking of coaching the D, the coach on the Packers who is the biggest mystery man IMO is Winston Moss. He came to the Packers with McCarthy who knew him in their time together in New Orleans. The next year McCarthy promoted him to Assistant HC/LBs coach citing his leadership skills (and to make it more difficult for other teams to poach him). He started out as the coach of all the LBs until Capers brought the 3-4 and Greene was hired; Moss switched to just ILBs. Now he’s back to LBs coach and he has both the ILBs and OLBs in the same room.

Of course it’s no secret ILBs have been the target of a lot of criticism. It’s almost impossible for outsiders to know but I wonder how much Moss had to do with that. McCarthy promoted him because of his leadership skills but I seldom hear or read of players talking about him at all, let alone praising him.
 

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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...monday-at-a-glance-b99332956z1-271782491.html

I know that McCarthy isn't a big yeller and neither is Capers, but the author (above) seems to be strongly hinting that there is not enough accountability in practice for mistakes. I'm a little indifferent in general, believing that there is not one correct strategy for coaching. However, when something isn't working (such as our defense) then its a little easier for me to look at issues like this and wonder if there is some truth to it.

Thoughts? Should the Packers coaches be more in-your-face about mistakes in practice? I assume that the overall answer will be yes, but I find it hard to believe that there is never any feedback in practice. Something about this report is a little fishy to me.


How did that article tell you that there is no accountability? The article says there is no time, and that happens in the tape room
 
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Maintaining an accelerated pace during practice helps negate the cutback in contact practice agreed to in the CBA. Getting as much into practices allows for a greater flow of corrective action. The coaches still instruct on hand and foot techniques to individual players. Breakdowns by the defence are more easily defined and corrected after the fact. If anything , it increases the position coaches working hours (if that were possible). Correcting players on the practice field is still done , but to a lesser degree.
Coaching is not the largest problem the Packer's coaches deal with. Injury, weather, and schedules aside , Coach McCarthy can only work with the players he is supplied with. If the Inside Linebackers are weak, look not at the players or the coaches ! Don't expect Prime Rib if management only buys ground turkey .
 
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El Guapo

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How did that article tell you that there is no accountability? The article says there is no time, and that happens in the tape room
It didn't. I said that it hinted that there is no accountability in practice. Very different from what you said. The article's author is clearly trying to say that something is amiss.
 
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El Guapo

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I completely agree that different players need different styles of motivation and that the league has changed. The author seemed to blame Capers' style and McCarthy's tempo. So one could deduce that the author believes that all players are being handled in the same way, after the fact and behind closed doors.
 

longtimefan

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It didn't. I said that it hinted that there is no accountability in practice. Very different from what you said. The article's author is clearly trying to say that something is amiss.

To me he isnt hinting it has to be done at practice..

The article clearly says

This defensive staff led by coordinator Dom Capers doesn't say much after a play, either good or bad.

Really, there isn't time.

The "corrections," as McCarthy often describes it, are made later in the tape room where it's plain as day to see.

Just wondering how you take it to mean the reporter says there might be an issue or that he is hinting it has to be done at practice?

And he does say good or bad...So it is consitent
 
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Why did the reporter wrote the piece? Was he merely just issuing a brief report on the timing of drills and communication, or was he insinuating something with his observations?
 

easyk83

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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...monday-at-a-glance-b99332956z1-271782491.html

I know that McCarthy isn't a big yeller and neither is Capers, but the author (above) seems to be strongly hinting that there is not enough accountability in practice for mistakes. I'm a little indifferent in general, believing that there is not one correct strategy for coaching. However, when something isn't working (such as our defense) then its a little easier for me to look at issues like this and wonder if there is some truth to it.

Thoughts? Should the Packers coaches be more in-your-face about mistakes in practice? I assume that the overall answer will be yes, but I find it hard to believe that there is never any feedback in practice. Something about this report is a little fishy to me.

This could explain some things, for a while now our Defensive personnel, with some exceptions, have seemed oddly ok with getting beat. Maybe the tempo of the practices, doesn't just make it harder to coach guys up on defense. Perhaps it gives our defense a bit of a whipped dog personality?
 

longtimefan

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It didn't. I said that it hinted that there is no accountability in practice. Very different from what you said. The article's author is clearly trying to say that something is amiss.

From the author
I've seen it done both ways in GB under many different head coaches.
Probably unimportant how or when criticism of players is handled

I can forward the email with headers if you want
 

longtimefan

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You emailed the author? I'm truly interested. Post the whole thing.

I wasnt going just "Assume" what he was thinking..I wanted to know how he truly felt.




On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:39 PM, wrote:
http://www.packerforum.com/threads/coaching-the-defense.53781/#post-565362


Do you think players should be yelled at during practice and not at film session.

Thoughts?

You saw his entire reply

I've seen it done both ways in GB under many different head coaches. Probably unimportant how or when criticism of players is handled.
 
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El Guapo

El Guapo

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You're really touchy about this for some reason. I don't understand why.

I'm glad that you emailed the author as it cleared up his opinion on yelling. When I read the original article, I assumed that there was a point to what he wrote as it didn't just seem informational. They can pay 18 year olds to merely report what happened, but we expect most sports writers to offer up their opinions one way or the other. So let's look at this. The author stated that the coaches "whipped" through their session. Then said that the defense got burned badly and that it "just shouldn't happen." Then he pointed out that the coaches don't say anything after bad plays, because the practices move along so quickly.

You can say that I was reading into that, but to me, it seemed that the author was leading the reader to believe that the tempo and the lack of instant feedback is part of the problem. I don't think that I jumped down anyone's throat about it. I asked if coaches should be more in-your-face when breakdowns occur in practice. Never did I say that they should yell, except for noting that MM and Capers don't tend to be yellers.
 

AmishMafia

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Some years back Mike McCarthy was named coach of the year and then he went and coached the Packers to victory in a Super Bowl . The man knows his business and the people who work for him . The questionable people are TT & MM , it's more difficult to cook a great meal when you don't do the shopping. I'm not sure that Coach McCarthy can hire and fire staff . TT selects the players , does he also select Coach McCarthy's staff too .
A couple of years ago TT won GM of the year and won a Superbowl. The man knows his business.

Its not a great meal when you buy filet mignon and your cook serves it with raw eggs and cuccumber sauce.
 

realcaliforniacheese

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The players are professional men. They did not get to this level by being slackers. Big Mac is a motivator not a screamer. I would think wanting to make the team and play in the SB would be enough of a personal motivator, Mac just gives them a kick when they need it. you don't perform, you don't play.
 

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