Can the O-Line really get the job done ?

[ivo610]

You have no idea what you're talking about...again.

well dont take my word for it...

First and foremost, Blanda was the original "gunslinger" – encapsulating, perhaps more than any other quarterback, both the pros and cons with which we consider the term today. At his peak, he was a big-armed, daring and highly productive player who kept defenses racing backward to defend his constant long-bombs; a player whose downfield derring-do was often self-destructive, but always entertaining.

The most notable statistical evidence of his wildly entertaining but paradoxical gunslinging ways: Blanda set a pro football record with 36 touchdown passes for the old Houston Oilers in 1961, a star-studded team and the first in history to score 500 points (513) in a single season. The very next year, he set a pro football record, one that still stands, with a truly remarkable 42 interceptions. Even contemporary gunslingers BrettFavre and Jay Cutler couldn't approach that many picks in a season, try though they did.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...a-great-showman-the-original-gunslinger/7495/

Gunslinger: Term for a quarterback who plays with an aggressive and decisive manner by throwing deep, risky passes. These quarterbacks usually possess the strong arm needed to throw deep effectively.

http://www.superglossary.com/Glossary/Entertainment/Football/Gunslinger.html

and another
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110815123204AAnU55i

If there's a second thing gunslingers do, it's commit a ton of turnovers.
http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...-sanchez-heirs-brett-favre-gunslinging-throne

The best example of a clear-cut, through and through gunslinger was none other than Brett Favre. Favre had a cannon for an arm, though he threw into all kinds of coverages and his mechanics weren't always textbook.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1581197-7-qb-recruits-with-the-best-gunslinger-mentalities

Clearly rodgers is not a "gunslinger", but continue believing what you want

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gunslinger: Term for a quarterback who plays with an aggressive and decisive manner by throwing deep, risky passes. These quarterbacks usually possess the strong arm needed to throw deep effectively.

Yeah, just like you said, that's Rodgers. He just happens to be more accurate and hedges his risks well enough that he doesn't throw may picks. What a silly argument you started.

 

[ivo610]

Yeah, just like you said, that's Rodgers. He just happens to be more accurate and hedges his risks well enough that he doesn't throw may picks. What a silly argument you started.

Yeah Isn't Rodgers at all. Maybe you have been watching too many bears games.

Keep trolling for arguments.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yeah Isn't Rodgers at all. Maybe you have been watching too many bears games.

Keep trolling for arguments.

LOL. YOU started this silly semantic argument with another of your pointless potshots. What the h*ll do you think is going on when Rodgers holds the ball for 2.8 seconds? Waiting for the play to "develop"? He's on the move looking for the receiver ad libs downfield. He's a different cat...his risk taking is the SACKS, not the PICKS. Get it?

Stylistically, Rodgers and Cutler DO have a lot in common. It just so happens Rodgers is better at it and has better personnel. In fact, it's hard to imagine a worse group of passing offense talent than the Bears.

And really...George Blanda? You must be joking.

 

[ivo610]

LOL. YOU started this silly semantic argument with another of your pointless potshots. What the h*ll do you think is going on when Rodgers holds the ball for 2.8 seconds? Waiting for the play to "develop"? He's on the move looking for the receiver ad libs downfield. He's a different cat...his risk taking is the SACKS, not the PICKS. Get it?

Stylistically, Rodgers and Cutler DO have a lot in common. It just so happens Rodgers is better at it and has better personnel. In fact, it's hard to imagine a worse group of passing offense talent than the Bears.

And really...George Blanda? You must be joking.

You quoted me bro, you started it.

Jay cutler career int % 3.4
Rodgers career int % 1.7

Blanda? yeah that was from CHFF, so they must be kidding you. Go troll them. I'm sure they would laugh just as hard as I do at you.

Wasn't Brandon Marshall an all pro last season?

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

The O-Line discussion marches on.

There are O-Linemen in camp that are not in the "starting" squad, like Bakhtiari. What news and/or opinions are there about them. Should TE's be included in this discussion too ? What about trading for better personnel ? Is there a coaching aspect that needs addressing ?

 

[13 Times Champs]

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[ivo610]

The O-Line discussion marches on.

There are O-Linemen in camp that are not in the "starting" squad, like Bakhtiari. What news and/or opinions are there about them. Should TE's be included in this discussion too ? What about trading for better personnel ? Is there a coaching aspect that needs addressing ?

I don't see a trade as an option. We value draft picks too much. Player for player trades just don't happen very often in the nfl. If we acquire someone else it would be from another teams final roster cuts most likely.

I can't stress enough how bad Jeff Saturday was last season. EDS should continue to be a big improvement.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Good article. What the stats don't show is how quickly after the snap the QB is avoiding pressure, thereby buying time. You can be sure the team knows, which I suspect was the reason for the shuffling of the line. And it's interesting that 51% think the primary problem is on the o-line, 20% on MM, and 17% blame Rogers. I'll go along with the 0-line until numbers prove otherwise.

That stat actually takes into account only those plays where the QB is standing in the pocket before throwing. I can't imagine that Rodgers is buying that much more time while staying in the pocket.

Also of interest, what was the last elite left tackle that won a Super Bowl? Our oline needs to improve, that's obvious, but I don't think the improvement needs to be as massive as many make it out to be. The Giants don't exactly have a who's-who of offensive linemen and they've won two titles. The Raves last year didn't start an elite lineup (good, but not elite) and they won the title. Offensive line is important but doesn't have to be great to win when you have a decent QB.

 

[slaughter25]

I think the main emphasis of the switch was to take pressure of the blindside. Rodgers is a god in the pocket when the pressure is coming at his face and everyone knows it. If they can shore up the leaky left side that was not allowing him to step up into the pocket it will give him more time to read the D and make the big plays. Even if the right side is still weak just being able to see it coming is a large help IMO.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Rodgers needs to stop holding the ball so long and his sacks will go down.

This is true, although a lot of his big plays, touchdowns, have come when he buys himself a bit of extra time.
Sometimes that calculation doesn't pay off.
If he threw it away every single time pressure came in fast, he'd have Christian Ponder like completion percentage.
We don't want that.

That being said, no to the original thread title.... I don't have faith in this OL.
I think had Derek Sherrod not gotten his leg snapped in two, the OL would be good.
Bulaga struggled big time last year vs my man Bruce Irvin.

This year he's scheduled to face a lot more better guys than that.
And he's also coming off the hip injury.

If they can run block better, that will please me.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That stat actually takes into account only those plays where the QB is standing in the pocket before throwing.

The stats need to come with a definition of terms. I suspect it measures time in the grounding zone...between the tackles. Rodgers' slips and slides in the grounding zone as much as any QB. His typical response to pass blocking breakdowns or the internal 2.5 second bell is not "throw it way" or "dump it off"; it's "get moving and look down field". He regularly passes up the guy underneath in favor of the big play opportunity when he senses he's some found space.

The past O-Line issue is that Rodgers doesn't get his 2.5 regularly enough. The downside with the O-Line shake-up is that while it might provide better blind side protection, his right side escape routes might be compromised.

By contrast, Peyton Manning has nearly zero mobility at this point, he knows it, and the passing offense is built to accommodate it...timing passes and dump offs are a staple.

 

[ivo610]

That stat actually takes into account only those plays where the QB is standing in the pocket before throwing. I can't imagine that Rodgers is buying that much more time while staying in the pocket.

Also of interest, what was the last elite left tackle that won a Super Bowl? Our oline needs to improve, that's obvious, but I don't think the improvement needs to be as massive as many make it out to be. The Giants don't exactly have a who's-who of offensive linemen and they've won two titles. The Raves last year didn't start an elite lineup (good, but not elite) and they won the title. Offensive line is important but doesn't have to be great to win when you have a decent QB.

100% agree.

Steelers few years back had a terrible O line and won a couple rings.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You quoted me bro, you started it.

Jay cutler career int % 3.4
Rodgers career int % 1.7

Blanda? yeah that was from CHFF, so they must be kidding you. Go troll them. I'm sure they would laugh just as hard as I do at you.

Wasn't Brandon Marshall an all pro last season?

The Bears had arguably the worst pass protection in the league last season. After Marshall, little in the way of weapons. The fact that they still run Hester out there as a receiver is telling. When your TB is your second best receiving option you have issues.

I don't care what CHFF says. If you have to back nearly 50 years to cite a gunslinger example, Blanda is not the best choice. Try Jurgenson, to take one example.

Your problem here is that the Favre experience has conditioned you to think of the term only in the pejorative. You associate the term with negative results, not the style.

I think in the future perhaps I should not actually respond directly to your posts if you're going to be so unimaginative. Best to disagree with you in absentia as it were.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Hmm...Steelers....

It just goes to show that a QB's best friend is an elite defense. A porous defense that lives off turnovers which cannot be counted on from game-to-game puts the offense in the position of having to just outscore the opponent.

 

[HyponGrey]

Hate to tell you boys, but the real ? on this team is the back up C.

 

[HyponGrey]

Besides, how much does an OL help a back when he gets to the secondary?

 

[El Guapo]

I hope that's sarcasm.

Unless you're Barry Sanders, you don't get to the secondary without help from the OL. While most plays involve blocking to the second level, OL are still relied upon to block secondary defenders (safties and CB) when they continue their blocks downfield

 

[Einstein McFly]

They've invested first round picks in the left tackle position. They've now completely flipped the offensive line, which is a rare move in today's game. They are attacking the issue. The only stone left un-turned is to bring in a big name free agent at left tackle, which is a premium position and premium cost in the NFL. You surely would be trading off a contract extension to a guy like Clay Matthews or similar to bring in a top LT.

There is no doubt that we all want to see the offensive line problems solved, but I'd prefer to see how the O-line flip goes before throwing in the towel. They are trying to find the right solution. There is not one correct answer though

Horrible idea. Bringing in high cost free agents is not the way TT does it because it generally doesn't work. Also, I don't see much evidence that you have to have a top flight LT to be a good team. You can't have a horrible one, but you don't need a top ten.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Your problem here is that the Favre experience has conditioned you to think of the term only in the pejorative.

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[HardRightEdge]

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I guess that's a reference to the Merriam "Webster" Dictionary.

This is better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative

Watch out for that pesky amelioration.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

What you talking bout Willis ? The O-Line could use a Bakhtiari at starting RT.

 

[HyponGrey]

What you talking bout Willis ? The O-Line could use a Bakhtiari at starting LT.

What are YOU talking about? Only if Bulaga falls flat on his cheeks. We need that kid at RT!

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

I meant RT. Thanks HG.

 

[Kitten]

I don't know what or who is the solution for our O-Line woes but all I know is this problem has extended all the way back to the Superbowl year when injuries started to pile up. The thing is it got overlooked because the team won the Superbowl that year but look what happened the following year and last year. Pretty much all of our offensive problems stemmed from a problematic O-Line.

Make no mistake this is a huge problem and if it doesn't get resolved we are going to be in trouble. The O-Line is not only crucial for QB protection (hello elite QB Aaron Rodgers we have) and pass / protection but for any kind of viable offensive production we may hope to have.

I'm not going to pretend to have the solution of who or what will resolve it but I'm going to ask the question do you think it's a personal problem or a coaching problem and that includes the conditioning/ training staff as we have seen a slew of O-Line injures in the last 3 years including most notably the Superbowl year. One could be the result of the other such as the injuries as a result of poor training/ coaching/ conditioning.