1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Bourke and Barry Released

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by CaliforniaCheez, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. tromadz
    Offline

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    :chalflag:

    Nowhere in my post did I use the word "complain."

    Chillax, son.
  2. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    Okay rephrase questioning.... it is the strategy after the cuts... "for crying out loud"....

    All Praise TT :bow:
  3. tromadz
    Offline

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Please calm yourself down.
    I think we're on the same page.
    So let's just relax.

    I think that was a haiku.

    I rule you...poetically.
  4. PackerLegend
    Offline

    PackerLegend Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,947
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Moll is listed as a tackle on packers.com and can play it. LT is Colledge's orignal position. They arent veterans or really proven at LT but where would you want us to get someone?
  5. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    First I am calm.... just get tried of the BS if you post anything non blindly supporting all Ted decisions...

    Moll or Colledge... then whom takes there place at the "easy" to replace position of Guard? You ask where would you like us to get one... would that not be a reason to come into camp with more than rookies and first year players?

    Please don't say Barry cause everyone posting above has stated this was a obvious cut.. which I agree with... so where was the planning to have alternative plans from the man in charge?

    After three years of trying and two years of cap space you would think we might have a little "comfortable" depth on the oline.

    And rule poetically... ahhh Trom whatever makes you feel special :)
  6. tromadz
    Offline

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    [​IMG]

    I like this line depth.
    Sorry if you don't agree.
    I will trust the pros.
  7. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    I respect your opinion Trom... so we shall see how the "pros" do this year...

    Was it the same pros that positioned us with a line in which we had to block with seven to keep four out of our backfield? That is the basis for my lack of faith... two straight seasons of shakey line play is reason enough for question in nothing more than my opinion...
  8. tromadz
    Offline

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    they aren't rookies now.
    they progressed over the year.
    our line will be fine.
  9. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    Ahhh I see.... I am relieved that I was worried for nothing... :thumbsup:

    *going to sleep peacefully tonight* ZZZZzzzzzzzzz
  10. MNPackerfan
    Offline

    MNPackerfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I am okay with the Depth. Tony Moll is a backup right tackle, He showed some ability last year and they can see if he improved (got stronger). College was a left tackle in college and showed key can play. So I think Moll is the first guy in. It appears someone else beat out Bourke, so they must think they have someone better It did appear Bourke had some skill last year (from comments I heard). I do not think there are a lot of teams which have proven "Quality" backup linemen.
  11. all about da packers
    Offline

    all about da packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    7,033
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    But last year wasn't all that terrible. It was bad, but there were flashes of what the line could become (the game where both Green and Morency rushed for a 100 yards).

    While I understand where you're coming from, I think it's almost impossible that the line won't improve this year. Especially Colledge, I think he was the weakest link on the line last year, as he faltered early and we looked to be in trouble in trouble for pinning our hopes on him. But he rebounded, and I think his main problem was his lack of strength (he only had 23 or 24 reps at combine bench press). Reports indicate (IE McCarthy said so) that Colledge has improved his strength, so hopefully our starting 5 will be more consistent this year.

    But perhaps you and I could be looking at this the wrong way Pack93, maybe they plan to make Colledge the backup LT and and have Barbre be the LG should Cliffy get injured. I gotta admit, if that happens, I'd feel more comfortable with Colledge there than Bourke or Barbre.

    Still, I am a bit concerned that the guy 2nd on the depth chart just a week ago was cut. Perhaps if Barbre was playing LT I wouldn't mind it, but it seems were going with unknowns at the position and that isn't exactly confidence building.
  12. CaliforniaCheez
    Offline

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Location:
    Citrus Heights CA
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Tromadz, I am concerned about who the back up Center will be.

    Coston played Center when he was drafted but the coaching staff seems reluctant to give him reps there.

    Being a Navy man I know we have not heard the full story on Bier.
    How does a guy play at Westpoint and get out of his service obligation??
    Was he kicked out? Why is he not in D'army? There is something bad in his background that has not been brought to light.

    Spitz has never played Center.

    Back up Center is a concern.
  13. tromadz
    Offline

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Wells is improving.
    With no health problems I know.
    Plus we have backups.

    I trust we will have,
    Solid depth on the O-line.
    we'll see pretty soon.
  14. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    AADP... while I understand your point Bourke proved potential with the pads on in live action before injury... how can the coaches tell or explain that someone beat him out in OTa's and a minicamp in which even contact is suppose to be a no no (unless it is injury). But I really am not opposed to the cuts themselves it is just the potential for the third straight year to have a rookie starting on the Oline.

    05 Whitticker - cut after TC last year... failed experiment.
    06 at times 3 rookies starting... very inconsistent but I agree showed potential..

    But with any real combination of injury we almost are guaranteed with the current makeup of the roster to be starting a rookie again.

    But I agree we shall see in a couple of months...
  15. PWT36
    Offline

    PWT36 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    895
    Location:
    De pere, Wi.
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Many rookie Offensive linemen have always started for the Packers in their first year in the NFL. I see no problem with rookies starting.

    T Chad Clifton was in 13 games in his first year -2000.
    T Mark Tauscher was all 16 games in first year - 2000
    T Ross Verb was in all 16 games in his First year -1997.
    T Earl Dotson was in 13 games in his first year in 1993
    G Adam Timmerman was in 13 games in his first year-1995.

    I will stop right here, but there are more Packer offensive linemen who played in many regular NFL games in their rookie year for the Packer through the history of this team.


    The best way for a NFL Offensive lineman to learn " the tools of his trade" , is to have on job training. In this era of NFL of salary cap & Free agency, not many team have great backups sitting around waiting for their starter to get injured.
    The back up has to be ready to come in at anytime and do the job!!
  16. Lare
    Offline

    Lare Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    705
    Location:
    Packwalking, WI
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Three rookie OL last year, a new blocking system, a new offensive scheme. Now, a year's experience plus an offseason in the weight room and in the team program.

    The way I see it, if the performance of the OL doesn't improve this year, people are going to have to come up with all new excuses.
  17. tromadz
    Offline

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    thats ok, people will come up with new complaints.
  18. warhawk
    Offline

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, Al
    Ratings:
    +38 / 0 / -0
    I love it when it gets to this time when the coaches and staff do what they are paid to do and get second guessed by people that have put 0, that's zero, time or have zero background in determining talent.

    You don't know Bourke from dork. OK? Anybody that says they do actually know whether this guy should have been cut is seriously reaching.

    I think the guys that have spent a zillion hours evaluating these guys and watching them live and on film for hours on end probably have things under control.

    These are early cuts. It ought to be really something to watch here when it actually get to be tough to call. I don't understand why TT has to be brought up in every single arguement.

    Do you think that TT came running out there saying "cut this guy, cut this guy" or maybe it was the COACHING STAFF that is meeting with TT that gives him the information to make a decision.

    The guy wasn't good enough. He was cut. The "0" line coaching staff rated him and graded him and determined his value. Bitch at them. Putting this on TT is a joke.

    If the "0" line staff wanted him there he would be there.
  19. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    Just as funny as watching people praise moves with 0, that is zero, time and experience in talent evaluation. Shoes fits on both feet doesn't it?

    It is our right as fans to have opinions correct?... or maybe we should only state opinions that fall in line with each and every move made by this coaching staff and GM.

    I thought forums were about opinions and sharing them.... oops my bad...
  20. Zero2Cool
    Offline

    Zero2Cool Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,902
    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1989
    Hey! Let's not be saying "zero" as if zero is ... a bad thing, jeepers people I have feelings ya know!
  21. Pack93z
    Offline

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Location:
    Central Wisconsin
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    I really just stated an opinion that our line depth isn't great at Tackle due to youth... not to save Bourke or Barry.... but apparently because Pyle isn't here currently my questioning or forming an opinion of moves is the "new" threat...

    Watched and played ball my whole life but apparently not qualified to have an opinion.... :thumbsup:
  22. warhawk
    Offline

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, Al
    Ratings:
    +38 / 0 / -0
    My point was that TT has very little to do with all of this other than make the final announcement on a decision the coaching staff had determined.

    Players like Whittiker and Barry were destined to be weened from a team that had made a decision to go with a different system. TT nor anyone else knew where that was going until it unfolded which happened after they were here.

    This is only the second year they have put the zone blocking system in place. Not many Pro teams use it. Many college teams do. The pool to draw players that can and will contribute is much more likely to come from the college ranks at this point.

    It's not like these guys were never given a chance. They don't have what it takes to be successful with what we do. It's better they get a chance somewhere else and we have a spot for somebody that will help us.

    The roster is far from being determined and if a capable zone blocking lineman from a Denver or Atlanta (more likely since they have ditched it with their new HC) becomes available I would expect they would get a look.

    It has been well documented that this is not a system where you try to teach old dogs new tricks. The younger they are exposed to this type of scheme the better off they are.
  23. Lare
    Offline

    Lare Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    705
    Location:
    Packwalking, WI
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    A couple of quick points.

    First, Ted Thompson makes all player decisions. Yes, he receives input from the coaches and personnel evaluators, but ultimately any player decision is determined by him, not the coaching staff.

    Next, if I'm not mistaken Barry was signed to a free agent contract after McCarthy and his coaching staff were already hired. That was after the offensive and zone-blocking schemes had been determined.

    Also, the roster is pretty well set at this point. There are no June 1st cuts anymore and the only players that'll become available now are ones that are outright released (probably due to injuries like Barry & Bourke) or ones released on the final cutdowns at the end of August. And although cutdown players can have value, it generally isn't realized until the second year as it's difficult to come in and learn a completely new system, get used to your teammates and be effective at such a late date. Somewhat like we saw with Lee, Bush and Peprah. I think at this point, what we see is pretty much what we're going to get.
  24. CaliforniaCheez
    Offline

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Location:
    Citrus Heights CA
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Now warhawk, I explained earlier that in the little action I saw of Bourke I had a favorable impression. He played much better than what was expected of a rookie free agent.

    It wasn't overboard but there may have been some sheering for the underdog. At Tackle I thought he was better than Coston.

    There was some speculation that his rehab from his injury set him back behind schedule. It may not be completely recovered. Perhaps the Packers were concerned about re-injury.

    We will never know all the factors that went into the decision to waive him.

    I agree though, Warhawk that the staff is making the best decision for the team in these and future cuts. While we may like a player, there are only 53 who are good enough, priced right, and have the future potential to be Green Bay Packers this season.

    There will be about 40 more cuts and guys put on waivers. We can have sympathy for them as they lose their jobs and hopes. We can also speculate on why those decision came about.

    But as said previously, if the Packers are cutting relatively good back ups the team appears to have improve significantly.
  25. warhawk
    Offline

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Gulf Shores, Al
    Ratings:
    +38 / 0 / -0
    Two years ago people here were saying the defense wasn't that bad and guys like Digg's and Lenon were pretty good LB's. I think the staff is thinking bigger and better things, thank god, and players who, when you really look at it, are NOT going to help us get where we ultimately want to go will have to be dropped off the squad.

    I think Coston's probably next to go after this year if he doesn't show he can contribute. Barbre is the kind of player that has the exposure and the tools in this system and they will find another next year if the depth they have doesn't perform.

    As TT has stated it's all about putting 53 quality players on the roster all who fit the system that can be successful and contribute. With every change of personnel I am quite certain this goal is kept in mind.

    Wait until the final three or four guys have to go. That's when you will see that the overall quality is improving. There's going to have to be some pretty good ballplayers put on the road there at the end.

Share This Page