Bishop signs with the Vikings

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Maybe I missed it but I didn't see were Neal would be playing a role as an ILB. In any case, I'm not going to get my hopes up for Neal especially when it's an experiment that may not work out.
 

rodell330

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for the life of me i still can't figure this out. Is the guy's injury that severe they feel he will tear it up again and they would rather just try to save some cash?? Anything else doesn't make much since because no way is Hawk and Jones more talented at the position....no way.
 

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Talent is one thing and health is another. We all like Bishop's passion and style of play, but you can get that from any position on the field. What you need at the Mike is a leader, and hopefully one with pop and passion. Hawk has the leadership part, he's durable, and knows our defense well. I guess in a three-way race I'd rather have Bishop than Jones at ILB. The team has chosen Jones though and we just can't keep all three
 

TJV

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The more I think about this the more I think it has a lot to do with their skepticism about his being able to recover 100% from that injury. The second part of McCarthy's adage about being accountable and available may be the main reason they're ready to cut ties with Bishop. (I think worries about Starks' availability for an entire season make his path to the final roster difficult too.) They may be willing to take a chance on Bishop at a lower price. His situation seems ideal for a performance based contract - maybe that'll happen if they're serious about him taking a pay cut (rather than just waiving him) and if no other teams come calling. As it is right now, they probably believe they have too much money allocated to ILB.

● I'd think even those not excited about Jones starting at ILB like him there better than OLB. Last year's pre season switch to ILB probably saved his career in Green Bay. If Jones were penciled in as a starter or main backup at OLB, that would be a major red flag for the D IMO.

● IMO the Neal at OLB experiment has nothing to do with Bishop. As Wilde mentioned on Homer's show yesterday, if Bishop is waived, Lattimore, Manning, and Francois will be vying for the backup ILB spots.

● I don't remember any "glowing" reports about Neal at OLB. The reports I read were more on the order of he's dropped some weight and getting more acclimated standing up. I'd be interested in reading a glowing report on Neal at OLB.
 

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http://sulia.com/channel/green-bay-packers/f/d6d4f05f-5a7f-441b-8b6e-690862c7eb43/?source=fb

You know who's excited about @MNeal96 as a situational OLB? #Packers OLBs coach Kevin Greene. Good quote:
"I think Mike Neal is very, very fluid. He’s very athletic. I just think Mike Neal could do anything that he really wants to do. It was coach McCarthy’s call and coach Dom’s call to give me Mike and just work with him a little bit, and see how it progresses.

"I think he’s going to be a heck of a pass rusher screaming off the corner. At 275, 280 pounds and playing in space and moving as he does, that gives coach Dom more options as far as having more athletes with that explosive type of ability on the field. It gives him an opportunity to design different things."​
longtimefan, Monday at 11:48 AM Report

This is all I've seen and it seems it's something they are just trying.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Is the guy's injury that severe they feel he will tear it up again and they would rather just try to save some cash??

They don't know what will eventually happen with that injury. Surgical reattachment of the hamstring is serious sh*t. Hamstring injuries have a bad habit of recurring. There is risk. Even if he can play, would it be with his past quickness and enthusiasm for hitting people? That's a valid question.

The problem is putting "we don't know" together with $3.5 million. TT is all about the value proposition. It might be helpful to think of each personnel decision as a betting proposition. If I pay a guy X, can I reasonably expect X+1 in value (with value downgraded by injury or injury risk or degraded performance risk)? If there are no acceptable roster alternatives, then at least X in value might be acceptable, keeping in mind that getting X for X across the top of the depth chart gets you an 8-8 ballclub.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Shields, James Jones and Raji's contracts are coming up - clear some space - lock up whoever.

Idk, It sort of sucks if we're gonna let go of Bishop - He's a thumper.
It's not the end of the world, we went the whole season w/o the guy - defense did above avg til people just started running it at Walden. We got some young guys that could be good - Brad Jones did good for a guy that was an OLB forced to play MLB midway through the season, AJ is meh - idk.

Maybe draft a thumper in next year's draft - roll with avg at MLB this year. :oops:

I just hope our Dline/other OLBs step it up and help compliment Clay this year.

Perry's a thumper and he's just not that fluid...a straight line guy like Bishop. He needs another year learning to play standing up...then maybe a move inside. I suggested this earlier before the Neal talk. Now, the attempt to work Neal in for some situational stand-up 9 tech pass rushes may be telling.
 

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Perry's a thumper and he's just not that fluid...a straight line guy like Bishop. He needs another year learning to play standing up...then maybe a move inside. I suggested this earlier before the Neal talk. Now, with the attempt to work Neal in for some situational stand-up 9 tech pass rushes may be telling.

I don't think the Neal move to OLB has anything to do with Perry. It'd be awfully early for them to give up on him at OLB. And we really don't have depth at OLB. Neal's "move" is nothing more than another option for Capers on passing downs I think. Just a way to get Clay, Perry, Neal, Jones, and Raji on the field at the same time maybe. At least that's what I'm assuming at this point because it seems pretty absurd to think Neal is a full-time OLB.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I don't think the Neal move to OLB has anything to do with Perry. It'd be awfully early for them to give up on him at OLB. And we really don't have depth at OLB. Neal's "move" is nothing more than another option for Capers on passing downs I think. Just a way to get Clay, Perry, Neal, Jones, and Raji on the field at the same time maybe. At least that's what I'm assuming at this point because it seems pretty absurd to think Neal is a full-time OLB.

In that configuration, you have 3 OLBs...Matthews, Neal and Perry. So lets see...who's the straight-line guy with some burst best suited to come up the middle? I think that would be Perry. There you go...step 1 to ILB.
 

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In that configuration, you have 3 OLBs...Matthews, Neal and Perry. So lets see...who's the straight-line guy with some burst best suited to come up the middle? I think that would be Perry. There you go...step 1 to ILB.

Well I have the same opinions of Perry you do. The ILB position for him is something I hadn't thought of. hmmm.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Well I have the same opinions of Perry you do. The ILB position for him is something I hadn't thought of. hmmm.

I see a Perry move to the middle as more of a 2014 or 2015 thing, though the idea of having him take a few rush snaps from the middle is an interesting possibility. We'd need to find a bona fide OLB to take that spot in the interim, and Perry has a ways to go in learning what it takes to play off the line.

The Neal OLB thing is bound to be situational, not anybody's idea of bread and butter. When asked how Neal would be used at OLB, MM said we'd need to wait until week 1. This suggests they're cooking up something specifically for SF, then if it works they adapt it from there.

The Neal thing, the read option studies and practice, MM's recently expressed heightened sense of urgency...it all points to a particular concentration on not being embarrassed again in San Francisco.
 

adambr2

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Perry seems pretty oversized for a ILB, even with some weight loss.

He does have the speed to play the position, but I'd be a bit concerned about his coverage skills. I'm not sure that would be the best use of his assets to take him out of pass rush situations and drop him more into coverage.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Perry seems pretty oversized for a ILB, even with some weight loss.

He does have the speed to play the position, but I'd be a bit concerned about his coverage skills. I'm not sure that would be the best use of his assets to take him out of pass rush situations and drop him more into coverage.

I don't think you can be too big to play ILB if you happen to run in the 4.6s. Poor coverage skills are a liability at any LB position if you expect the guy to be a 3-down player, though I would grant the point ILB coverage skills in nickel zone are critical, but that will be Jones' job for the foreseeable future. To reiterate, he's a straight line player, has some burst, and can unload on people, even if his coverage skill potential doesn't look too promising.

Does that description remind you of anybody? To me it's kinda like a faster Desmond Bishop.

And how good are his pass rush skills off the edge, really? He's got the burst, but he's somewhat limited in agility, movement in space and moves beyond the bull rush.

What was the quote from one of the coaches this weak, speaking of Neal? I can't find the link offhand. Something like "he's very agile and athletic, works great in space, he can do anything". We can only wish we'd hear those words used to describe Perry since they are the desired attributes of a pass rushing OLB. I haven't heard them yet.
 

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Why are people wanting Perry to move inside? If he fails horribly at OLB year after year, maybe they'll do something else with him, but 3-4 OLB is a much more important position than ILB, so if there's any chance of him making it there then they'll give him that chance. Besides, people have been saying he's too big for OLB, so how will be he inside? Come on folks. They'll be fine at ILB. Hawk isn't spectacular but he's always there and Jones is better than most are giving him credit for. Literally every other position group (dline, OLB, corners and safties) are more important to the success of our defense this year.
 

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Mike Neal's work at OLB, IMO, does not reflect the team's feelings on Perry. In the Capers defense versatility is at a premium, ie Matthews Woodson. If Neal can competently alternate between OLB and DE our front 7 should be able to create more confusion at the point of attack.
 

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Mike Neal's work at OLB, IMO, does not reflect the team's feelings on Perry. In the Capers defense versatility is at a premium, ie Matthews Woodson. If Neal can competently alternate between OLB and DE our front 7 should be able to create more confusion at the point of attack.

All teams look for versatile athletes. Few teams have them. Versatility meaning players that can take on multiple roles. While Capers may want that in his defense, I'm not sure the Packers at this point have many players that fit that role, at least good ones. Woodson is gone so eliminate the one guy I think was the definition of versatility. I'd argue that Matthews is just a great player period.

What you have in today's NFL are situational or package players. Neal is one, C.J. Wilson, even Hayward.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Mike Neal's work at OLB, IMO, does not reflect the team's feelings on Perry. In the Capers defense versatility is at a premium, ie Matthews Woodson. If Neal can competently alternate between OLB and DE our front 7 should be able to create more confusion at the point of attack.

People like to have multiple reasons for their decisions, particularly unconventional ones. 3 reasons is often considered a good number.

1. You cited one reason. Capers likes unconventional looks and having guys in places and doing things the opponent might not expect.. Psycho, Woodson playing a lot of hybrid SS/linebacker under the guise of "nickel corner" in 2010 - 2011, and having Matthews drop in coverage 6 or 7 times per game as in 2011 are a few notables.

As noted earlier, I think it would be interesting to see the D break huddle with a 3-3-5 look with Jones-Raji-Neal up front, then shift Raji off the nose, have Neal bounce out to 9 tech with Matthews coming down to the line creating a nickel front.

2. Having Neal play OLB on occasion would put the presumptive 4 best pass rushers on the field: Matthews, Raji, Jones and Neal.

3. I can't think of a third reason other than Perry is not included in 2 above. It's not like anybody has given up on him. But he MUST make a year 2 jump in this DE-OLB conversion, which has a fairly high failure rate in the NFL. A repeat of his stiff uncertain play of last year will surely be a disappointment that would be hard to take on a 3-down wait-and-see basis through 16 games. Neal at OLB can be a contingency plan as a partial alternative if things don't work out quite as hoped with Perry.

4. I throw in a 4th...if Perry does suddenly metamorphose into an edge rushing threat, an eventuality about which I'm skeptical, Neal could give Matthews a blow here or there.

It's not like Neal is going to play 40 snaps out there...I would expect just a few, at least until they see how it works. That's a few Perry does not play.
 

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Not in agreement to moving Perry to the inside, that defeats the whole purpose of drafting him which was to be a edge rusher. Seeing Neal as an OLB should be interesting, i don't think he can cover in space. May be another Aaron Kampman out there.
 

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So does anyone else think that it's uncharacteristic for the organization to float out the "Bishop will be cut" information and then not follow up on it?

Here is my guess. They get Bishop to renegotiate to backup money on a 1-year deal with escalators. The trade-off is that he gets extra time to rest his hamstring. If Hawk or Jones gets hurt, he's the first guy onto the field and his escalators kick in. Either way he's a free agent next season.

My guess #2 is that we cut him, the Vikings sign him, and he goes on to play 7-8 solid seasons for them - especially in games when playing Green Bay. :D
 

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My guess #2 is that we cut him, the Vikings sign him, and he goes on to play 7-8 solid seasons for them - especially in games when playing Green Bay. :D

That's actually what worries me. The Vikings actually have a need at MLB and even Chicago doesn't have a locked-in starter there yet.
 

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