1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up/a> or Log In

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Bishop signs with the Vikings

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Shawnsta3, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Maybe I missed it but I didn't see were Neal would be playing a role as an ILB. In any case, I'm not going to get my hopes up for Neal especially when it's an experiment that may not work out.
  2. FrankRizzo
    Offline

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,771
    Location:
    Dallas
    Ratings:
    +1,608 / 59 / -33
    Packer Fan Since:
    1969
    Injuries always loom....
  3. rodell330
    Offline

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,448
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +831 / 174 / -43
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    for the life of me i still can't figure this out. Is the guy's injury that severe they feel he will tear it up again and they would rather just try to save some cash?? Anything else doesn't make much since because no way is Hawk and Jones more talented at the position....no way.
  4. El Guapo
    Offline

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,886
    Location:
    Land 'O Lakes
    Ratings:
    +1,048 / 47 / -2
    Packer Fan Since:
    1976
    Talent is one thing and health is another. We all like Bishop's passion and style of play, but you can get that from any position on the field. What you need at the Mike is a leader, and hopefully one with pop and passion. Hawk has the leadership part, he's durable, and knows our defense well. I guess in a three-way race I'd rather have Bishop than Jones at ILB. The team has chosen Jones though and we just can't keep all three
  5. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    I don't think the team had a vote in the matter El Guapo. ;)
  6. ThxJackVainisi
    Offline

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,738
    Ratings:
    +1,886 / 48 / -33
    The more I think about this the more I think it has a lot to do with their skepticism about his being able to recover 100% from that injury. The second part of McCarthy's adage about being accountable and available may be the main reason they're ready to cut ties with Bishop. (I think worries about Starks' availability for an entire season make his path to the final roster difficult too.) They may be willing to take a chance on Bishop at a lower price. His situation seems ideal for a performance based contract - maybe that'll happen if they're serious about him taking a pay cut (rather than just waiving him) and if no other teams come calling. As it is right now, they probably believe they have too much money allocated to ILB.

    ● I'd think even those not excited about Jones starting at ILB like him there better than OLB. Last year's pre season switch to ILB probably saved his career in Green Bay. If Jones were penciled in as a starter or main backup at OLB, that would be a major red flag for the D IMO.

    ● IMO the Neal at OLB experiment has nothing to do with Bishop. As Wilde mentioned on Homer's show yesterday, if Bishop is waived, Lattimore, Manning, and Francois will be vying for the backup ILB spots.

    ● I don't remember any "glowing" reports about Neal at OLB. The reports I read were more on the order of he's dropped some weight and getting more acclimated standing up. I'd be interested in reading a glowing report on Neal at OLB.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    http://sulia.com/channel/green-bay-packers/f/d6d4f05f-5a7f-441b-8b6e-690862c7eb43/?source=fb

    You know who's excited about @MNeal96 as a situational OLB? #Packers OLBs coach Kevin Greene. Good quote:
    "I think Mike Neal is very, very fluid. He’s very athletic. I just think Mike Neal could do anything that he really wants to do. It was coach McCarthy’s call and coach Dom’s call to give me Mike and just work with him a little bit, and see how it progresses.

    "I think he’s going to be a heck of a pass rusher screaming off the corner. At 275, 280 pounds and playing in space and moving as he does, that gives coach Dom more options as far as having more athletes with that explosive type of ability on the field. It gives him an opportunity to design different things."​
    longtimefan, Monday at 11:48 AM Report

    This is all I've seen and it seems it's something they are just trying.
    • Informative Informative x 2
  8. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    They don't know what will eventually happen with that injury. Surgical reattachment of the hamstring is serious sh*t. Hamstring injuries have a bad habit of recurring. There is risk. Even if he can play, would it be with his past quickness and enthusiasm for hitting people? That's a valid question.

    The problem is putting "we don't know" together with $3.5 million. TT is all about the value proposition. It might be helpful to think of each personnel decision as a betting proposition. If I pay a guy X, can I reasonably expect X+1 in value (with value downgraded by injury or injury risk or degraded performance risk)? If there are no acceptable roster alternatives, then at least X in value might be acceptable, keeping in mind that getting X for X across the top of the depth chart gets you an 8-8 ballclub.
  9. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    Perry's a thumper and he's just not that fluid...a straight line guy like Bishop. He needs another year learning to play standing up...then maybe a move inside. I suggested this earlier before the Neal talk. Now, the attempt to work Neal in for some situational stand-up 9 tech pass rushes may be telling.
  10. BorderRivals.com
    Offline

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Ratings:
    +499 / 28 / -3
    I don't think the Neal move to OLB has anything to do with Perry. It'd be awfully early for them to give up on him at OLB. And we really don't have depth at OLB. Neal's "move" is nothing more than another option for Capers on passing downs I think. Just a way to get Clay, Perry, Neal, Jones, and Raji on the field at the same time maybe. At least that's what I'm assuming at this point because it seems pretty absurd to think Neal is a full-time OLB.
  11. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    In that configuration, you have 3 OLBs...Matthews, Neal and Perry. So lets see...who's the straight-line guy with some burst best suited to come up the middle? I think that would be Perry. There you go...step 1 to ILB.
    • Old Old x 1
  12. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Well I have the same opinions of Perry you do. The ILB position for him is something I hadn't thought of. hmmm.
  13. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    I see a Perry move to the middle as more of a 2014 or 2015 thing, though the idea of having him take a few rush snaps from the middle is an interesting possibility. We'd need to find a bona fide OLB to take that spot in the interim, and Perry has a ways to go in learning what it takes to play off the line.

    The Neal OLB thing is bound to be situational, not anybody's idea of bread and butter. When asked how Neal would be used at OLB, MM said we'd need to wait until week 1. This suggests they're cooking up something specifically for SF, then if it works they adapt it from there.

    The Neal thing, the read option studies and practice, MM's recently expressed heightened sense of urgency...it all points to a particular concentration on not being embarrassed again in San Francisco.
  14. PackFanNChiTown
    Offline

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    713
    Location:
    Plainfield, IL
    Ratings:
    +348 / 22 / -4
  15. adambr2
    Offline

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,168
    Ratings:
    +757 / 15 / -3
    Packer Fan Since:
    1989
    Perry seems pretty oversized for a ILB, even with some weight loss.

    He does have the speed to play the position, but I'd be a bit concerned about his coverage skills. I'm not sure that would be the best use of his assets to take him out of pass rush situations and drop him more into coverage.
  16. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    I don't think you can be too big to play ILB if you happen to run in the 4.6s. Poor coverage skills are a liability at any LB position if you expect the guy to be a 3-down player, though I would grant the point ILB coverage skills in nickel zone are critical, but that will be Jones' job for the foreseeable future. To reiterate, he's a straight line player, has some burst, and can unload on people, even if his coverage skill potential doesn't look too promising.

    Does that description remind you of anybody? To me it's kinda like a faster Desmond Bishop.

    And how good are his pass rush skills off the edge, really? He's got the burst, but he's somewhat limited in agility, movement in space and moves beyond the bull rush.

    What was the quote from one of the coaches this weak, speaking of Neal? I can't find the link offhand. Something like "he's very agile and athletic, works great in space, he can do anything". We can only wish we'd hear those words used to describe Perry since they are the desired attributes of a pass rushing OLB. I haven't heard them yet.
  17. Einstein McFly
    Offline

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    282
    Ratings:
    +172 / 9 / -1
    Packer Fan Since:
    1988
    Why are people wanting Perry to move inside? If he fails horribly at OLB year after year, maybe they'll do something else with him, but 3-4 OLB is a much more important position than ILB, so if there's any chance of him making it there then they'll give him that chance. Besides, people have been saying he's too big for OLB, so how will be he inside? Come on folks. They'll be fine at ILB. Hawk isn't spectacular but he's always there and Jones is better than most are giving him credit for. Literally every other position group (dline, OLB, corners and safties) are more important to the success of our defense this year.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. easyk83
    Offline

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    577
    Ratings:
    +230 / 25 / -3
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Mike Neal's work at OLB, IMO, does not reflect the team's feelings on Perry. In the Capers defense versatility is at a premium, ie Matthews Woodson. If Neal can competently alternate between OLB and DE our front 7 should be able to create more confusion at the point of attack.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. 13 Times Champs
    Offline

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,377 / 86 / -17
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    All teams look for versatile athletes. Few teams have them. Versatility meaning players that can take on multiple roles. While Capers may want that in his defense, I'm not sure the Packers at this point have many players that fit that role, at least good ones. Woodson is gone so eliminate the one guy I think was the definition of versatility. I'd argue that Matthews is just a great player period.

    What you have in today's NFL are situational or package players. Neal is one, C.J. Wilson, even Hayward.
  20. HardRightEdge
    Offline

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,055
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Ratings:
    +1,308 / 65 / -6
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    People like to have multiple reasons for their decisions, particularly unconventional ones. 3 reasons is often considered a good number.

    1. You cited one reason. Capers likes unconventional looks and having guys in places and doing things the opponent might not expect.. Psycho, Woodson playing a lot of hybrid SS/linebacker under the guise of "nickel corner" in 2010 - 2011, and having Matthews drop in coverage 6 or 7 times per game as in 2011 are a few notables.

    As noted earlier, I think it would be interesting to see the D break huddle with a 3-3-5 look with Jones-Raji-Neal up front, then shift Raji off the nose, have Neal bounce out to 9 tech with Matthews coming down to the line creating a nickel front.

    2. Having Neal play OLB on occasion would put the presumptive 4 best pass rushers on the field: Matthews, Raji, Jones and Neal.

    3. I can't think of a third reason other than Perry is not included in 2 above. It's not like anybody has given up on him. But he MUST make a year 2 jump in this DE-OLB conversion, which has a fairly high failure rate in the NFL. A repeat of his stiff uncertain play of last year will surely be a disappointment that would be hard to take on a 3-down wait-and-see basis through 16 games. Neal at OLB can be a contingency plan as a partial alternative if things don't work out quite as hoped with Perry.

    4. I throw in a 4th...if Perry does suddenly metamorphose into an edge rushing threat, an eventuality about which I'm skeptical, Neal could give Matthews a blow here or there.

    It's not like Neal is going to play 40 snaps out there...I would expect just a few, at least until they see how it works. That's a few Perry does not play.
  21. fanindaup
    Offline

    fanindaup Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    Calumet, Michigan
    Ratings:
    +52 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1968
    Neal is being tried at OLB. Bishop is an ILB.
  22. rodell330
    Offline

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,448
    Location:
    Canton, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +831 / 174 / -43
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Not in agreement to moving Perry to the inside, that defeats the whole purpose of drafting him which was to be a edge rusher. Seeing Neal as an OLB should be interesting, i don't think he can cover in space. May be another Aaron Kampman out there.
  23. El Guapo
    Offline

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,886
    Location:
    Land 'O Lakes
    Ratings:
    +1,048 / 47 / -2
    Packer Fan Since:
    1976
    So does anyone else think that it's uncharacteristic for the organization to float out the "Bishop will be cut" information and then not follow up on it?

    Here is my guess. They get Bishop to renegotiate to backup money on a 1-year deal with escalators. The trade-off is that he gets extra time to rest his hamstring. If Hawk or Jones gets hurt, he's the first guy onto the field and his escalators kick in. Either way he's a free agent next season.

    My guess #2 is that we cut him, the Vikings sign him, and he goes on to play 7-8 solid seasons for them - especially in games when playing Green Bay. :D
  24. mradtke66
    Online

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    390
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Ratings:
    +134 / 8 / -0
    That's actually what worries me. The Vikings actually have a need at MLB and even Chicago doesn't have a locked-in starter there yet.
  25. Bensalama21
    Offline

    Bensalama21 Ben

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,512
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Ratings:
    +585 / 13 / -0
    • Funny Funny x 1

Share This Page