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About Carr being a bust, or worth of the #1 overall pick, and such...

Discussion in 'All Other Team Discussions' started by ThinkICare, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    So, you don't think Carr would've been better with a "good enough" O-Line?
  2. turbo69
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    turbo69 Cheesehead

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    First of all........I do figure it out myself........and when we picked Harrell, I was looking at the guys still there at that position, and was like........what the hell are the Packers thinking. I am not saying I am always right, Kiper is always right........or whoever. I was just making the statement that I thought their were guys left on the board........that most people had way above Harrell. As far as the experts are concerned...........ha...ha...ha....look at the draft back when Tony Mandrich was picked before......Barry Sanders.........Dieon Sanders just to name a couple.

    But this post is about Dexter McCluster. I think adding Dexter McCluster would be like........well check out the pick....

    Attached Files:

  3. PackersRS
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    How is he after 2 years with the Giants, with arguably a very good OL?????????
  4. turbo69
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    turbo69 Cheesehead

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    That is what I thought.!!!!!:hunter:
  5. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Well, one could argue he got really shook up after those years with the Texans. Being one of the most sacked QB's in that span of time where he was with the Texans. The fact that he had 4 different Offensive Coordinators with the Texans didn't help at all either. Am I suppose to believe Carr is suppose to thrive after what he went through with the Texans, that he'll automatically be the QB he was suppose to be with the Texans and go from there? Last time I checked, Eli Manning was the starting QB for the Giants, so I don't know where you're going with that argument. Like watching a few halves of preseason games is a good gauge on how he would've actually performed with the Giants as a starter.
  6. PackersRS
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    Yeah, it is a good gauge, for a FIRST OVERALL. He doesn't get any consideration from teams desperate to get QBs.

    Please, don't come with the argument that he throws a pretty ball...

    I love those hypotheticals, "ah, he doesn't play because he didn't have the same OC".

    CMON! We're talking about the freaking FIRST OVERALL pick. And the guy can't even get a starting job in the NFL? Kyle Orton can...

    What'll be the excuse for JaMarcus Russel, then???

    If you're a first round QB, let alone a first overall, you need to at least flash amazing talent, and be smart enough to develop after 3-4 years in the NFL.

    Remember, I'm not talking about performing to Aaron Rodgers' level. I'm merely asking that, after 4 years in the NFL, that he's employed as a starting QB.

    It was a big mistake getting him in the first round, let alone first overall, and he's a huge bust. Those are solidified points. You can't argue with that.
  7. turbo69
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    turbo69 Cheesehead

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    He sits on the bench.......how will anyone know???????
  8. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    How is him not having the same OC for 4 years a hypothetical? That actually happened if you didn't know. So, you're going to put all the blame on a QB, when there are suppose to be people who need to do their jobs in grooming QB's for the NFL. Do you think it's 100 percent the QB's job to do that? You make it seem like it's Carr's fault that he was the first overall pick, that's the fault of the Texans management.

    What solidified points have you made RS? That he's not a starting QB? Yes of course he isn't, I know this. I'm not disputing that. You need to take into account how the coaches of the Texans handled Carr too. Please don't compare Russell with Carr. Carr didn't have the exact same issues as Russell. Russell has shown he has serious passion issues and a terrible work ethic. Are you trying to say the same things for Carr?
  9. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    What I do know is that Carr had no clue how to go through reads, wasn't ready to play in the NFL, had TERRIBLE mobility and mechanics, but guys like Draft GURU Mel Kiper projected him as a great NFL QB.

    Charles Casserly bought in. And Carr, like it or not, failed.

    Sure, if he had a great OL and a consistant OC, he might've been sucessful. But he had weapons (Andre Johnson), and had the same HC all his years. Putting the blame on the OC and OL is really easy.

    How did Sanchez do? How did Stafford, with a TERRIBLE OL, do? How did Flacco and Ryan do?

    BTW, Schaub didn't have the same OC. He didn't play even for the same team. How can he be a very good Qb, then???
  10. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Just so I'm not portraited as paranoid:

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Bruce Campbell Runs A 4.77 40-Yard Dash

    Oh, yeah, 40 yard dash answers most of the questions to me, too...
  11. ThinkICare
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    Sanchez looked pretty good down the stretch with that great OL, but they're much more a running team. Stafford looked terrible with one memorable game against a bad team. Where are you going with this?

    Putting the blame on just the QB is really easy also. You've been doing it through this whole argument. Throwing out words people are sorta familiar with, trying to knock a QB for getting picked 1st overall when he had no control over it. I'm not saying he was totally worth the pick, but saying he was a complete bust and putting all the blame on him is lame to me.

    Why do you bring up Kiper's and Casserly's names? What does that have to do with Carr's abilities?
  12. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    BECAUSE THIS WASN'T ABOUT CARR! YOU MADE IT OUT TO BE!

    This was about TT never moving up, then someone mentioned Harrell, to which I responded that in TT's board Harrell wasn't a reach, that basing value by the so called experts is a huge mistake, to which I pointed blalant errors by those analysts.

    I'm actually moving everything that's about this subject out of this thread...
  13. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I just can't believe I'm having this discussion, that IF Carr had a good OL, he would've been good.

    I'm not going to talk about what ifs anymore, you don't think he's a bust, you don't think it was a mistake him being drafted 1st overall, and I, and the Texans organization do think so, evidenced by Casserly being fired.

    You think he has what it takes to be a good NFL QB, I and 31 teams don't think so. Maybe the Giants think he can be, but I believe they only consider him as a backup, and nothing more...
  14. Jess
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    I think if an NFL coach had seen potential in Carr, he would've been given another chance. So, no, I don't think it was the line.
  15. ThinkICare
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    I've been saying that those 4 years with the Texans screwed with Carr's head and now is not a good QB anymore. I think he was a good QB. You guys obviously don't.


    BTW RS, how do you know if Harrell wasn't a reach on TT's board? Do you know something we don't?
  16. PackersRS
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    My point wasn't to affirm that Harrell was a reach. Was to say that noone can affirm he was a reach, unless they have TT's board, and not those analyst's boards.

    Every other player wasn't a reach, why would Harrell be one?
  17. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    I don't really want to argue anymore, but you just contradicted yourself. How do you know every single other player he drafted wasn't a reach on his board? Just don't make TT up to be the GM of all GM's. I think he's a good GM and I'm happy we have him in the Packers organization. It's not impossible that at some times he might have been impulsive at certain times in drafts.
  18. PackersRS
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    He made plenty of bad choices. If you felt like I was idolizing him, I feel offended.

    But the bad choices were because his board was messed up, or because he disregarded certain factors about players when picking them, specially medical history.

    But impulsive? Really? TT, in Ted Thompson, the souless one by some? Are we talking about the same guy?

    You can say almost anything about him, but one thing he's not is impulsive.

    It's just his Modus Operandi, to stick with his board, and not reach.

    You might be confusing taking a gamble on players with reaching. Some players are put high in boards based on upside. That's why Bruce Campbell is a 1st rounder, for instance. Picking him at 23 is not a reach, but is a gamble.

    -

    Never might be a tad strong, but if you're discussing semantics here, and not the intention of the original post, then I'll stop...
  19. ThinkICare
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    All I was saying is that saying he's NEVER EVER once reached or been impulsive is an exaggeration. I'm aware of TT's intelligence. He's definitely a smart GM.
  20. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah, and again, I used the never term as an hyperbole...

    My point is that TT stays true to his board, and won't get McCluster way before he's worth to make sure he gets him...

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