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A Changing of the Guard -- a closer look at the G position.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Bruce, Jun 11, 2006.

  1. Bruce
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    Bruce Cheesehead

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    If you are like a lot of fans and wondering __ why TT is not picking up any of the street FA guards that are out there.

    I really like Daryn Colledge too, but TT got 2nd round talent by drafting Colledge -- he was after all the 47th pick. Here is what some scouts had to say about the Packers drafting Daryn:

    Angelo: "Smart. Good strength. Size. Nothing not to like. I like him better than the kid (Michael Roos) the Titans took in the second last year."

    NFC scout: "I think he's a better guard. I compare him to Mike Wahle. He can run. He's tough. He's strong in his hips. He's not strong in his upper body. He grates on people because he has such a strong personality. He wants to be really good."

    Softli: "He's going to be a pretty good pro. He's got all the athleticism and skill. He plays with a little nastiness, too. He'd be in the top five or six of tackles. Bottom of the second round."

    Heckert: "I don't think he's a first. I think some people have some size issues. He's not big and everybody's going big. I think he'll go early in the second. I think he can play guard. He's just going to be a 295-pound guard, and people don't like playing with those guys. He would fit a zone scheme."

    AFC scout: "I don't think he will be Wahle's size. Wahle was a lot bigger."

    AFC scout: "I really like him. You can't go in the first round on him because he doesn't have the ideal size. But, boy, I think he's a good player. He's a tough sucker. Very athletic. From North Pole, Alaska."

    Ross: "He's real athletic, real quick. Competitive and smart kid. Lot of upside. I think he'll end up going bottom of the first. Maybe it turned some people off that he was too smart."

    [​IMG]
    If you look at the shot above, taken Thursday you can see that they (Daryn left and Junius right) are not HOGS, rather athletes (which zone blocking requires).

    Junius Coston is another athlete who I understand why they are excited about his upside. He was not ready for the NFL last season -- he needed a year to grow physically and to learn the pro game. His athletic ability and his year of hard work getting stronger and learning should make him a contender to thrive in a zone blocking scheme. Here is what scouts had to say about Junius last season:

    AFC scout: "He is a good player that is young. He needs technique but he is really athletic. He'll be a starter at some point. I think you probably have to take him in the fourth round. He didn't look very good at the Senior Bowl."

    Jerry Hardaway, Arizona: "He's a raw guy that is going to take some time. He can play center or guard because he's real athletic. He's quick and nifty on his feet. I'm not pushing him for the first day. He can be a nice guy on the second day if he's staring you on the board."

    AFC scout: "Played guard in the Senior Bowl. I like him. He's athletic. He might be a little bit of an edge player as opposed to a power player. The first day in Mobile he didn't look real good because he was overextending. He hadn't faced the competition that he saw there. But he got better."

    And from the article on the front page of Packer Chatters:

    "I'm kind of a fan of Junius. He's a versatile player, and I think he has a chance to be a good player," general manager Ted Thompson said. "For a lot of these fellas who never have been into the fray on the NFL level, it will be a new experience. (But) we feel pretty confident that he can play."

    Thompson drafted Coston as a center, where he started his last two seasons in college. He also started at right tackle as a sophomore and played some at both guard spots his freshman year.

    Moving to right guard on a full-time basis has opened Coston's eyes. Jagodzinski, though, hasn't been dissuaded in the least by the development of Coston at the position. Jagodzinski said that the 6-foot-3-inch, 312-pound Coston is the prototype for right guard in the Packers' newly implemented zone-blocking scheme, which requires the interior linemen to be relatively svelte.

    "He's athletic. He can stay on his feet. He has power. He can redirect. He does a lot of the things we're looking for. He's what they're supposed to look like," Jagodzinski said.
    (see full article on front page)

    DO NOT FORGET ABOUT JASON SPITZ...

    From Cliff Christl's blog:
    FRIDAY, June 9, 2006,

    Spitz makes an impression

    As Brett Favre said at his Thursday press conference, the Green Bay Packers will learn the truth about their young offensive guards sometime after Sept. 10 when they start lining up against the likes of Shaun Rogers and Pat Williams. But don’t be surprised if the Packers wind up starting two rookies at guard.

    The deeper the Packers get into their off-season workouts, the more there is to like about third-round draft pick Jason Spitz. At first glance, second-round choice Daryn Colledge looked to be the better athlete. Colledge's knee bend is exceptional and maybe it sounds trite, but he just looks the part. Spitz is a different kind of an athlete. He seems to be one of those guys who plays with good base, good leverage, all those little things that matter.

    [​IMG]

    From the start of the first minicamp, Spitz’s punch stood out in both pass protection and the run game. He has what they call in the trade “heavy hands.â€
  2. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: A Changing fo rhe Guard -- a closer look at the G positi

    Bruce, were you typing with one hand? What are you doing over there? :wink-wink:

    jk

    edit - also, unfortunately for GB, this was one of the worst free agent offseasons for WR and O-linemen(guards), which were some of our biggest needs.

    I think GB is doing fine though, with drafting...and rookies from last year(whit). Colledge seems to be the man at LG, and the battle with Whit\Coston\Spitz will work itself out. Competition is better than just giving the job to a crappy person like last year(Klemm at LG, 7th round rookie with Whit).

    I hope it all works out, but it is still a better position than last year(yes, that is not saying much).

    good stuff, brucey.
  3. porky88
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    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: A Changing fo rhe Guard -- a closer look at the G positioj.

    I like how the scouts gave the exact report as I've been with Colledge.

    Like I said our offensive line appears to be in better shape now but we'll know for sure come August and September. Also I believe it's going to be 2 young guys starting at guard this year. Coston, Colledge, Spitz, and White in my opinion are the fab 4 to compete. I see Klemm as a LT this year and Whitticker as a RT. With Moll as a backup that can play both guard or tackle (though I think Moll might end up on the practice squad)
  4. CaliforniaCheez
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    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    Re: A Changing of the Guard -- a closer look at the G positi

    Lucier was out of football last year but has started in the NFL at Center and OG. White was not active last year. Both will have to fight an uphill battle.

    Whitticker beat out the competiton last year and became a starter as a rookie. I think he will continue to improve. He has continued to start with the first unit this year. He has also demonstrated his flexibility that may make Klemm disposable.

    Wells can play OG if the injury situation gets bad.

    Normally, one would expect 4 OT's, 3 OG and 2 C on he final roster. This year may be an exception to the rule. If nine are on the final roster my bet today would be on the first nine:

    RT Tauscher
    LT Clifton
    LG Colledge
    C Wells
    RG Whitticker
    Coston
    Spitz
    ________________Bubble
    Klemm
    Lucier
    *******************Cut line
    White
    Moll
    ________________Bubble
    Traynor
    Bourke
  5. porky88
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    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Whitticker kinda started by default last year and started because he fit Larry Beightol's mold for a guard. Big power blocker. This a new scheme and everything and that's why he won't start. He doesn't fit. We'll know come Training camp. If he reports at 315-320 and moves quick, then yes he's in the running. If not then he'll play RT in this scheme and that's ultimately where I'll think he'll play.
  6. net
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    net Cheesehead

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    Shaun Rogers, the Bears DT's and the Williams dudes are less than 6 feet away from Brett Favre. Keep that in mind when you get all excited about having two rookie guards and a still mostly unproven center.

    I thought last year TT simply said the coaching staff will have to live with the "changing of the guards" in favor of younger players. Klemm turned out to be mediocre at best and the rest of the vets were duds.
    The Packers offensive line never really got in sync, and as many often say, it all begins with the offensive line.

    Do you want to win this year? That is the core question. Coston is for all practical purposes a rookie. While you can have the vets cover for one rookie on the line, it is difficult to cover for two.

    Especially with Barry gone, they need a veteran backup, ala the role Grey Ruegemer used to fill, to push them and take over if something goes wrong.

    I think this was on Favre's mind as he was contemplating his future during the off-season.

    I never get excited about players until you see them with pads on. They all look like Tarzan until then.

    I think a veteran is needed, if one is available which is another question.
  7. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    No Doubt Net! We need something else. This line is whats holding us back from being a serious threat. Some people on here seem to be residing in Wonderland regarding Colledge and Coston. I get bashed because I say I don't think Colledge is the answer this year. They say "the scouts no more than you" and "everything sounds good with Colledge thus far." If they would open thier eyes they would see Colledge got easily blown up by Johnny Jolley at the OTA's. How do you think he will handle the real NFL calibur guys? It's not bashing Colledge but it's a serious concern as a Packer Fan, that I won't just try to paint a rosey picture of.


    Some will say we have other options and that one of them has got to do decent. I don't think that guy is on this roster however. Whitt's to big,Klemm is terrible,Spitz is a rookie as is Moll. Where do we turn?


    Coston may be alright with a year under his belt but Colledge scares me. I think Brett has all the tools around him to move the ball consistently but will not be given the time and will be forced into to many 3rd and longs because we will not be able to establish a run game. The Defense should be great and keep us in many games. Our kicking game is probably another area we should address as Cundiff is a shank-o-holic and our Punters can't seem to boom any kicks.


    All in All, this team is an Above Average team held back by a subpar line. As they say, your only as good as your weakest link.
  8. packedhouse01
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    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I don't disagree that all of these young guards have an upside, but they might be a year or two away from playing well. We need to fill those two guard spots with veterans who can still play.
  9. C-Mize
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    C-Mize Cheesehead

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    Re: A Changing of the Guard -- a closer look at the G positi

    No doubt our line has a ton of upside. BUT upside doenst get you to the playoffs, proven talent (more often than not) carries you to the playoffs, and at G we are definately lacking proven talent. Give our line a couple of years and we should be amazing.
  10. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    But will Favre be around by then? I guess it will be kind of cool going from an elite quarterback driving a Chevy, to a average to good quarterback driving a Mercedes.

    The O-line should be OK by mid season!
  11. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    It's not going to be. It's one giant ongoing experiment!
  12. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    how is the entire o line an experiment when 3\5 are proven?
  13. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    It's not 5 seperate guys - it's a whole unit! You can't have 2 superstars and expect to run the ball effectively.


    Lets see - you have 2 guys to block the whole defensive front and LB's?

    I am glad Tauscher and Clifton can block 5.5 guys apiece!
  14. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    ...nobody said that. lol. wow.

    tausch\clifton\wells are familiar with each other

    colledge is solidified at LG and is getting to know the men to his left and right.

    this is something we didnt have last year. I swear the o-line changed weekly under sherman in 2005.

    I agree they need to work together a lot...and...um...THEY ARE. lol.
  15. GakkofNorway
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    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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    since nobody else said it yet, nice post Bruce.
  16. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    I just answered your question, you ask I answer. Anyways Calling Wells proven is a bit of stretch anyways


    You say they need to work together, thus making it AN EXPERIMENT!
  17. digsthepack
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    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I hate to think how incorrigable some of you folks will be when Favre retires.

    Tauscher and Clifton started as rookies.

    Flanagan came in and had no drop-off from Winters.

    Wells is a natural center, not a guard...putting him where he belongs is a good idea.

    Colledge is a lock to start on the left.

    The right side will work itself out.

    Change and uncertainty is a natural part of the NFL landscape these days. While is seems appropriate to discuss/debate this issue, some folks have already concluded the line will suck, which is too bad. That is what TC is for...to figure all this stuff out. Your worry seems a tad premature.
  18. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: A Changing of the Guard -- a closer look at the G positi

    ?

    So Gardner\Driver is an experiment?
    Pickett\Jenkins is an experiment?
    Woodson\Harris is an experiment?
    Manuel\Collins is an experiment?
    Barnett\Hawk\Taylor is an experiment?

    If 2 players haven't worked a season with eachother it's an experiment? what?

    And Wells has proven he can start at center and do a solid job.
  19. warhawk
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    warhawk Cheesehead

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    IMO there is a big difference in Coston and Colledge vs. having Whitt and Klemm.

    Whitt and Klemm were asked to step into a system in place and do the job Wahle and Rivera did. It didn't happen.

    Coston and Colledge are in a system playing to their strengths which is a big difference.

    I will take Colledge in a zone scheme picked in the 2nd round over Whitt who was asked to do more than he was capable of for a seventh rounder any day.

    Will they got their butts handed to them, make mistakes, misread assignments? Yes.

    Will they get their butts handed to them less, make fewer mistakes, and blow fewer assignments than last years guys? Yes. I believe they will.

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