2009 Draft - Round 1, Pick 26, Overall Pick 26 - Clay Matthews

i was happy when we made this pick and even more ecstatic when TT was aggresive and went and got the pick he wanted. Good Job

Great pick. I think that Matthews is going to be a beast in the NFL, he's so athletic and he makes huge hits. Defense is about to get real exciting in Green Bay.

Check out this blog I found. Oh Lions...so worthless.
Calvin Johnson Looks For New Hobbies To Replace "Winning" And "Being Proud Of His Teammates" | Popcorn Muscles

I like the pick, but cushing is more fit for this team

Cushing was gone when we could pick. And I doubt we could've moved up there.

I really hope Clay was worth the 2 picks. He looks great on film and looks to be a speedy and efficient at tackling. Could fit well in the 3-4 scheme. I assume he'll be rushing the quarterback most of the time with his speed.

I was very surprised in how much we gave up for that pick and at first I wasn't excited nor mad when we selected him. But I am hearing very nice things about him and I think he will help us a lot.

sounds like a hard hitting, hard working kid

If he's anything like his father, we will have a pro-bowler for years to come. His gramps and uncle were studs as well.

The guy is a tough cookie. I wish he were not on the Packers roster.

Rumor or not, what's wrong with that? Seriously.
It's okay for the opposite to be happening all the time, black power, black panthers, black lawyers association, black history month, black entertainment tv (bet), ms black america, the black community this and that, etc. but anything to do with loyalty, unity, pride in one's race if white is deemed "bad"?
Why such double-standards in the USA nowadays? Amazing.

Had Matthews tested the same except been black, he would have been a top-10 pick.
It's good for us he wasn't.

FrankRizzo, you have already established (what's a nice way of saying this?) you view life through the prism of race, no need to keep reminding us. Even so you really can't see how the black panthers (and/or their newest incarnation) can be easily distinguished from the other groups you mentioned which identify themselves by race? Here's a clue if you really can't: The blank panthers have more in common with white power groups than they do with Ms. Black America, etc.

I've got three more questions for you if you care to answer:
1) Can you think of anything unique about the black experience in the United States?
2) Why are you proud to be white?
3) You really think if Clay's college career was exactly the same he would have been a top 10 pick if he were black - you really see a lot of racist GMs in the NFL?

Are Black Groups acceptable to you?
We see Black Power, Black Rights, Black History Month, Black Entertainment Channel, Black College Scholarships, etc. all the time.... what if Matthews was doing something along that line for his particular ethnicity? Would him being a proud White man be a bad thing? If so, then it applies to proud Black men, Asian, Irish, Brit, Mexican, etc too correct?

1) Yes, each race's experience is unique in the USA, not only black, from Mexican to my wife's Asian, to Native American, to Irish, Italian, Jewish, etc. The black roots are very unique, as are the recent black immigrant roots from Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, etc. And each has a unique history to it. In the past.
2) I'm proud of all races when they do good, embarrassed of all races when they do evil.
I'll be blunt and honest about this part though: When growing up, I was a basketball player, and in the 80's, my dad & stepdad, and my friend's dads all rooted for the Celtics and against the Lakers. I rooted for the Lakers. Can you guess why the dads rooted for the Celtics? Yep, the same reason why 99% of black spectators in tennis root for Serena vs the white chick, and why 99% of the black spectators root for Tiger, and vote for Obama. Some might call it natural to root, side, like whoever they identify with, whatever.

But I hated the "white" Celtics even though I had been named MVP at Kevin McHale's Basketball camp, I didn't like Bird or Ainge, or Walton. I liked Magic, Worthy, Michael Cooper.....
But as I have experienced life since then, dealt with many things, seen many things, guess what? It's caused me to root for the white guy. What are those things? Thousands of things both close and afar.
3) I'm not sure what you're alluding to, getting at, with that one. You know for a fact that there are reasons there are zero White CB's in the NFL, or that every starting HB in the NFL is Black. You know that almost all the white WRs get compared to Welker or Jordy.... so what's your point?
Compare Matthew's senior film and his combine time to recent busts Aaron Maybin, Larry English, Aaron Curry... add in the Matthews bloodline.

Yet Clay was called a 2nd Rd prospect by most so-called experts. Hmm.

There's color-blind, and there's blind.
And there's reality.

Your postings on this site give me no reason to believe what looks like revisionist history in the above post. You hated the white Celtics and loved the Lakers? Sure. Only problem is you contradict that in the same post as you’ve done in many previous posts here. But it’s no surprise by your own admission you were surrounded by racists growing up.

Digging up a year old thread is interesting though – perhaps you’ve at least been thinking about it. Here’s something else for you to think about: Why not be proud of individuals when they do good and embarrassed when they do evil? It looks to me like the answer is you view people through the prism of race.

But I’ve encountered enough racists throughout my life – both black and white - to know it’s nearly impossible to change their attitude. As long as they don’t express their racism violently mostly I feel sorry for them because many times it’s “inherited” and born of ignorance.

If what you say you really believe, that we should be color-blind, than surely you see all the special-interest black-this and black-that, which I have mentioned.
As far as I know, when a white person tries to form a similar group, they're branded evil, racist, etc. even though the black group already has the thing going on just fine.
Black Doctors Association, etc.

You seem the type who feels better by calling everyone else racist.
What are your thoughts about all the special black groups, scholarships, awards, organizations, etc.?

We're all just individuals right?
Not black or white.
Not female or male.
Not young or old.
Not Americans or Canadians or Mexicans.
Not my family, but everyone else's too.
Just pretend that we're all the exact same, have the same pride in everyone right? That's you?

"Frank", I don't know you and don't want to get to know you because IMO your posts reveal you to be a racist. The man whose name you use on this board was reputed to be a racist. Previously you seemed to wear a "white pride/power" label proudly. Taken together that doesn't suggest "racist", it screams racist to me. As I said I've learned its pointless trying to talk racists out of their racism. But I do find it curious that you resurrected this thread after more than one year of inactivity. Why was that? What took so long?

I don't enjoy calling anyone a racist. But ignoring racism when one comes across it enables its continuance and I will not be a party to that. And yes, I hate racism wherever it exists, including within the black community as well as within other minority communities. I'm against affirmative action based upon race. To the extent it exists I believe it should be restricted to educational opportunities and exclusively with regard to economic circumstances: So good/great students born into poor or lower middle class families can go as far in education as their skills and determination take them, regardless of their race. I believe the United States at its best is a meritocracy and the goal laid out by Martin Luther King, Jr. of judging people not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character is a most laudable one.

And yes, we all are individuals. But racism is not sexism, nor "age-ism" nor nationalism. And protecting one's family "against the world" and above all else really has nothing to do with this "discussion". Your lumping them all together is another display of your confusion in my opinion.

Finally, this is not an appropriate discussion for this forum so unless you ask me a direct question, I'm done.

Simple reason why. I know you'd prefer to find a "sinister" reason for it, but there's a basic reason for it, and it's your doing.
You see how I replied to you here? When I do that, you get a notice of an alert/ "reply". I see those pop-up all the time, which alerts me to the activity and I click it and go.
You, INTENTIONALLY, always chose to NOT directly reply, even though you are replying. So I never got an alert to anything to lure me here.

Why I was here yesterday or the day before is I was looking into draft stuff, saw something interesting about Brian Orakpo, and boom, I found this again.

I have met a few people from this site in person, at a Packers game in San Diego, and they saw me with my best friend from junior high/high school who happens to be a minority. Let's ask him if I am racist. I've been close friends with him and his family since the mid 1980's.

Let's ask my long time customers at my store who are black, or Asian, Latino, how racist I am. In real life.
Let's ask my kids' friends and teammates here how racist I am. Let's ask them who their favorite "team dad" is. I'll win that one. Why? Because of how I am, act, do, etc.

I don't have to defend myself to you though because people with attitudes like you, making naive insults and labels about someone you admit to not know. In my long life experiences, it's people like you who are the most racist. Afraid to even mention the word "black".
Afraid to discuss anything race-related honestly for fear of seeming to be racist.
People like you voted for Obama probably party because he was black, which IMO is just as racist as someone who voted against him because he was black.
If it's racist for a white person to root for a white person against Tiger or Serena because of race, then it's the same for the black person to root for Tiger/Serena for the same reason. But that's dismissible to you.

Here's something today from Clarence Thomas. Had I said it, or any white person like Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly, you'd pin the racist label on them right?

Like the rest of your post, that’s just not credible. Brian Orakpo, huh? Sure, you must have done a search for Orakpo and this thread turned up, huh? Only problem with that is that name is only mentioned once in this thread – in your most recent post. Maybe you were wondering if Thompson had to choose between Orakpo and Matthews? Opps, Orakpo was taken 13 picks before Matthews. As far as my “intentionally always”… that’s just another crock: Back in April of last year I responded to your post on the same day you posted. And from then until your most recent posts on this thread my forum name was listed as the last respondent. This isn’t a big deal except it’s more evidence of your lack of credibility.

As far as the people in your life, if you talk to them like you post here you reveal yourself to be a racist whether they tell you that to your face or not. For example, in this thread you posted you’re fine with white power groups. You want to talk to about the “real” world and being naïve? Thinking white power groups are OK is dangerously, stupidly naïve. One of the first things you mentioned in the “Good Fits” thread you started after listing two players was “White guy”. If you relay that kind of nonsense to people in your life they don’t have to wonder how important race is to you when judging people. I don’t know how you are in “real” life, I can only assess you from the way you post and that paints a very clear picture. But hey, I’m happy to find out you realize being called a racist is a bad thing. That wasn’t clear previously.

As I posted before, racism exists in every group. But because some blacks and Latinos – and others - are racists, doesn’t justify racism by whites or anyone else. As far as my being afraid to talk about racial issues that too is a load of crap: As I’ve posted before, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with talking about race. I’ve done it my entire life – I grew up in a racially diverse city and neighborhood. But you go beyond talking about race – “White guy” when it has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Defending white supremacists because there are black supremacists groups. Tell yourself anything you like and I’ll write it one more time: I don’t know you but I do know your posts reveal someone who makes judgments of people based upon their race.

BTW, I didn’t vote for Obama and it has nothing to do with his race. For confirmation of my political leanings check the “Charles Woodson and Wis. Protesters” thread. Or don’t.

I work with Anthony and Patricia who both are black, and I care a lot more about what they think about me than you do.
We like each other, and have fun together.
I like them because...... I like them.
And vice versa.

I also like Shaniqua, and her butt & legs, and if I was still single and younger.....

I played ball this evening with our half-black neighbor Chris and my kids.
I'm his favorite adult in our "hood". Because of how I treat him. Because I like the kid. Because he's a pretty good kid.
Even though he dropped a few perfect passes by me tonight.

I believe you are the type who calls anyone who has pride in his race RACIST if they are white, but UNDERSTANDABLE or JUST FINE if they are black, and that's a your problem, not mine.

I believe there should be neither.
Or both.

But I'd prefer there to be neither.

I find it racist, and offensive, that there is an NAACP, Black Sports Online, Black Entertainment Television, Miss Black America, United Negro College Fund, Black Entertainment & Sports Lawyers Association, Black National Bar Association, Black Teachers Association, Black Doctors, and thousands of other BLACK-only groups, organizations, charities, etc.
But more offensive to me is you or anyone else here could try and form the exact opposite group, for whites, and then paranoid white-guilt folks like you would label them white "Power", racist, hateful people.

You're probably one of the folks who called Nolan Nawricki 'racist' for his scathing opinion of Geno Smith, and Cam Newton.

And yes it's true that I only popped into this DRAFT area because I am ready for the draft, as it's 2 weeks away now....
and I saw your inflammatory, racist accusations, and felt you better be set straight.

I have found that the most secretly-racist people are usually the ones who accuse others of being racist.
I'm married to an Asian and my kids are bi-racial, and I have friends of many different races from Asian to Mexican, Indian, and black.

If one of us is racist, it's not me.
And that's real life.

And Frank Rizzo is the character from the Jerky Boys, of which I own their first 5 CD's. Calling him racist is ridiculous.

You've contradicted yourself again: I guess Orakpo had nothing to do with your revisiting this thread. And now you wish there were no race based groups but in this thread you endorsed (the rumored lie) that Matthews had created a White Power facebook group. You apparently have trouble understanding my repeated statements that racism, no matter the source, is wrong. I have no reason to believe anything you post.

People form certain social groups like "black doctors" Ect... for reasons of common bond, IMO. People want to be around people that are similar and have similar interest and common bonds. yes, there are doctors af all races, and that is a commonality, but people like to go back to their roots and tend to gravitate to those that they feel will give them automatic acceptance.

I never really knew any black guys before going into the Marines, so I had no reason to dislike, distrust or not like them or any other race for any reason whatsoever. I learned quickly that there were two colors in the Marines, Light green and dark green ( green camo uniform reference ) and that we were all just Marines and the seperation was by rank, not skin color. Some of my best pals from the service were of different back grounds and religions. I loved getting all the details of their lives and what troubes they came from. I was told by them that I was "white" and looked "white", but I myself am 1/2 Italian and 1/2 Oneida Indian....So I never thought of myself as white, I always selected "other" on forms or paperwork relating to race.

Race is a touchy subject indeed. I tend to base my opinion on the individual and not their race as a whole. I could care less if certain races have groups or funds for "them only", who is that bothering,really? Are you really wanting to be a part of that and feeling left out? Also, if B.E.T. bothers you on the TV, then use that really cool invention called a remote control and change the channel. Just my .02 cents.

I couldn't tell you what channel number BET is. I just know it exists and it's "respected".

My main point is this: If all those special-black groups are perfectly fine, in fact "honorable", then I want those rare white-only organizations that some brave college kids, or whoever, form, to also be considered fine, or honorable. As I said, my wife is Asian and I know she feels more comfortable around other Asians.

The problem I have is that there are double-standards big time, and anyone who tried to do white what's already done black, gets labeled by the paranoid and naive folks like Jack here, as "power" or hateful or racist.

Why is it fine that 99% of black golf fans at the Masters or US Open or Colonial, whatever root for Tiger only because he's black like them, but it's not fine that a white person does the same with someone against Tiger, or Serena, Venus, because they are white like them?

It's fine to have black pride (or Mexican, Asian), but not white?

Vainesi here would rather just toss out softball insults here than answer any of these direct questions.
You claim you hate all racism, but what do you call all these exampled? Are they fine or not?

In response to the possibility that Matthews created a White Power facebook group, you posted “…what’s wrong with that? Seriously.” As I posted, IMO that is as naïve and as stupid a statement as appears anywhere on this site. Do some research: White Power groups engage in hatred and violence. But you think that’s OK because the Black Panthers and others did as well? As I also posted, go ahead and tell all of your minority friends about how white power groups are OK with you – ask ‘what’s wrong with them, seriously?’ If they don’t looked shocked they are either as ignorant as you or they already know you to be a racist. If they do look shocked…

Check post number 42: I directly called you a racist. Only a racist would consider that a “softball insult”.

As to your question, check post #44: “As I posted before, racism exists in every group. But because some blacks and Latinos – and others - are racists, doesn’t justify racism by whites or anyone else.” Is there a word or phrase in those two sentences that confuse you?

I abhor all racism. I don’t like that any groups are organized around race. As I said above, I would favor affirmative action based upon economics, not race. I really detest people like the-not-reverend Jesse Jackson who IMO uses race to extort money, and of course he’s not the only one. I’d prefer the Congressional Black Caucus to be called the Congressional Extremely Liberal Caucus. Having said that, because of the history of racism in this country (which fewer and fewer people like you carry on), I understand the motivation for some of the groups based upon race to have organized on that basis. The first “black” groups in this country came into being because blacks were the targets of more than just “bad words”. And after centuries of being enslaved, being proud to be black was a reaction to too many whites telling them they were/are inferior. But because people like you are in a shrinking minority I think it’s time for those organizations to change their orientation or disband.

What I don’t understand is why you are proud to be white. To me it’s analogous to being proud you were born with blue eyes, or right-handed. You had nothing to do with it. And it can’t be a reaction to discrimination based upon race. From what I’ve witnessed almost every racist has little else to be proud about so they attempt to push down others in order to bolster themselves. And if your only response is as immature as the child who answers his parent’s rebuke, ‘Billy is doing it too!’ that also says a lot.

Let's shorten it up here.

1-Is it okay with you for a woman to root for a woman against a man, just because she's a woman?

2- Is it okay with you for a Mexican-American to root for Mexico vs the USA in World Cup Soccer?

3- Is it okay with you for a Catholic to root for the Notre Dame Irish because they are Catholic?

4- Is it okay with you for a person who has a stuttering problem to root for Lazaro on American Idol because he too has the same problem?

5- Is it okay with you for a fat person to root for John Daly because he's the fat guy like them?

6- Is it okay with you for the black patron to only root for Tiger and Serena solely because they are black?

7- Is it okay with you for Asian-Americans to root for Jeremy Lin in the NBA solely because he is Asian?
Or because he is a devout, and outspoken Christian?

8- What about the Atheists who hate Tebow because he's a Christian?


Tell me which is acceptable to you, and how would you compare those to the black-only or white-only groups I've mentioned.
Let's see if we can get somewhere here.
I just want a level playing field.
And people like Eugene Kane are at the bottom of my list.